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Posted 11/26/2021 4:45 PM (GMT 0)
My niece's friend (age 10) is deaf in one ear after having covid. But I'm guessing that's a pretty rare reaction.
Posted 11/29/2021 5:00 PM (GMT 0)
There are only a few verified reports of hearing loss related to Covid in the entire world, so I don't think that is enough justification to vaccinate all young children. Fauci want's to vaccinate babies now which I think is insane. We vaccinate babies against measles, mumps, polio, small pox, etc., because those can be deadly or crippling for children so it is completely justified and reasonable.
Also, current vaccinations only protect partially against many of the variants which means vaccinated people can still be vectors for spreading Covid.
My sons are in their early 20's and I encouraged them to get vaccinated which they did. But babies and toddlers? That seems nuts to me, at least until the long term safety can be put through the same rigorous testing that all other new drugs require.
So far my docs at mayo say the booster is safe for people with U.C., but we shall see if they still say that 6 months from now as more people get it.
Posted 11/29/2021 5:30 PM (GMT 0)

C_G_K said...
There are only a few verified reports of hearing loss related to Covid in the entire world, so I don't think that is enough justification to vaccinate all young children. Fauci want's to vaccinate babies now which I think is insane. We vaccinate babies against measles, mumps, polio, small pox, etc., because those can be deadly or crippling for children so it is completely justified and reasonable.
Also, current vaccinations only protect partially against many of the variants which means vaccinated people can still be vectors for spreading Covid.
My sons are in their early 20's and I encouraged them to get vaccinated which they did. But babies and toddlers? That seems nuts to me, at least until the long term safety can be put through the same rigorous testing that all other new drugs require.
So far my docs at mayo say the booster is safe for people with U.C., but we shall see if they still say that 6 months from now as more people get it.

I think it's a questionable policy when there are vaste swathes of africa with only a few % of the population vaccinated....would be better to focus on global vaccine equality....
Posted 11/29/2021 5:44 PM (GMT 0)

C_G_K said...
There are only a few verified reports of hearing loss related to Covid in the entire world, so I don't think that is enough justification to vaccinate all young children. Fauci want's to vaccinate babies now which I think is insane. We vaccinate babies against measles, mumps, polio, small pox, etc., because those can be deadly or crippling for children so it is completely justified and reasonable.
Also, current vaccinations only protect partially against many of the variants which means vaccinated people can still be vectors for spreading Covid.
My sons are in their early 20's and I encouraged them to get vaccinated which they did. But babies and toddlers? That seems nuts to me, at least until the long term safety can be put through the same rigorous testing that all other new drugs require.
So far my docs at mayo say the booster is safe for people with U.C., but we shall see if they still say that 6 months from now as more people get it.

You know what we haven’t studied long term? Covid-19 and the long term effects from getting infected by it. But we do know that it has killed and disabled millions of people and some were children. Some of the infected children come down with multisystem inflammatory syndrome which could be deadly.

There are medically fragile and immunocompromised children in our schools, they have rights to have a safe educational space under the American With Disabilities Act; there are suits in the courts right now to enforce it and to make schools a safe environment for all.

Trust the scientists and doctors, not some news pundit or social media. You’re 6x’s more likely to transmit the virus if you are unvaccinated.
Posted 11/29/2021 5:52 PM (GMT 0)

poopydoop said...

I think it's a questionable policy when there are vaste swathes of africa with only a few % of the population vaccinated....would be better to focus on global vaccine equality....

There are supposed to be enough vaccine to fully vaccinate the globe by the end of 2022.

I am hopeful for the new antivirals coming out as a weapon in knocking down outbreaks while vaccines get to those areas that aren’t fully vaccinated yet.

It’s comical that people will tout new monoclonal antibodies and new antivirals but vaccines are too new to take.
Posted 11/30/2021 12:48 AM (GMT 0)
I wonder what they are going to do about boosters and the new variants? Anyone heard anything?
Posted 11/30/2021 1:21 AM (GMT 0)

clo2014 said...
I wonder what they are going to do about boosters and the new variants? Anyone heard anything?

They won’t know if a new booster is necessary for omicron for a few more weeks. Both Pfizer and Moderna are working on new boosters and would be released in 90-100 days if they are necessary.
Posted 11/30/2021 3:46 AM (GMT 0)

poopydoop said...

I think it's a questionable policy when there are vaste swathes of africa with only a few % of the population vaccinated....would be better to focus on global vaccine equality....

Do you think this is a result of a production bottleneck or do you think it is a result of these countries not having enough money to pay for it?

I think companies making the vaccine should have some compassion and not try to reap a windfall profit from it.

BTW I'm not dumping on anyone who has vaccinated their young children. Just keep in mind that the mortality rate among children under 18 is between .00 and .03% and many states (in the U.S.) have reported zero deaths in that age group. Do what you think is best for your kids.
Posted 11/30/2021 3:52 PM (GMT 0)
I think it's a distribution problem of the supply which is currently available. Wealthy countries have stockpiles of vaccines and instead of sending them to countries where the medically-vulnerable and healthcare workers are still unvaccinated, they focus on vaccinating 5 year olds at home.
Of course there are ways to increase production especially if the drug companies would release their patents but that's more of a long term project.
Posted 11/30/2021 4:10 PM (GMT 0)

poopydoop said...
I think it's a distribution problem of the supply which is currently available. Wealthy countries have stockpiles of vaccines and instead of sending them to countries where the medically-vulnerable and healthcare workers are still unvaccinated, they focus on vaccinating 5 year olds at home.
Of course there are ways to increase production especially if the drug companies would release their patents but that's more of a long term project.

I'm all for getting shots in the arms of the medically vulnerable. The "theory" is that variants are developing in immunocompromised patients because our bodies do not fight the infection the same way as healthy patients and can linger while variants mutate. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/scientists-think-new-variant-may-have-emerged-hiv-patient/
--------------------------

"The South African scientists tracking the new coronavirus variant believe it probably evolved in a patient with HIV/Aids with a chronic Covid-19 infection.

If so, it will not be the first time a variant has emerged in a patient with a long-running Covid infection, scientists told the The Telegraph. In fact, many experts believe it could be how some of the other variants sprang up, including alpha, the first global "variant of concern", which emerged in Kent last autumn.

Across the world, scientists have traced the virus evolving in immunocompromised patients with months-long Covid infections.

Patients with untreated HIV or other conditions that weaken the immune system - such as cancer, for example - can struggle to see off Covid, leaving their body fighting the virus for prolonged periods. They effectively act as an evolutionary training gym for the virus to mutate to find new ways around their immune responses."
----------------------

If the scientists say that the vaccines lose most of their effectiveness after 6 months then maybe they know more than some randoms on social media and "news" pundits on cable tv.
Posted Yesterday 9:36 PM (GMT 0)

ks1905 said...
If the scientists say that the vaccines lose most of their effectiveness after 6 months then maybe they know more than some randoms on social media and "news" pundits on cable tv.

The variants are coming from the vaccinated in general, not just immune compromised people. I can provide top level sources to back that up. Non-sterilizing vaccines being given to everyone during a pandemic creates natural selection pressure that selects for the worst strains of the virus. Non-sterilizing vaccines reduce symptoms and are meant to be given to the vulnerable only, not the entire population. The rest of the herd is meant to acquire the virus and eventually develop natural immunity. This has been pandemic policy up until the recent covid one. When you give non-sterilizing vaccines to everyone, it acts kind of like antibiotics if everything doesn't get killed. You get super bacteria. Similarly, non-sterilizing vaccines in a global population will produce super viruses. This is fact.

People compare this to polio or small pox but those were sterilizing vaccines. They killed 100% of the virus in anyone who got innoculated.

The "omicron" variant from South Africa produces mild symptoms. The discoverer said this herself in a recent press conference. The western media is having a field day of hysteria about omicron just around the time they want to push boosters. I'm not saying don't get a booster, I'm just saying... get it for a good reason, and not because they tell you to run out and get one.

Pandemic policy has been a total nightmare in its consequences.

Post Edited (VanJordan) : 12/1/2021 2:39:11 PM (GMT-7)

Posted Yesterday 10:18 PM (GMT 0)
It's a gross over-simplification to categorize vaccines as either sterilizing or non-sterilizing.

The myth of sterilizing vaccines:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/sterilizing-immunity-myth-covid-19-vaccines/620023/
Posted Yesterday 11:45 PM (GMT 0)

beave said...
It's a gross over-simplification to categorize vaccines as either sterilizing or non-sterilizing.

The myth of sterilizing vaccines:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/sterilizing-immunity-myth-covid-19-vaccines/620023/

The Atlantic isn't a scientific source. Media propaganda isn't a source.

The info I'm posting is from talks by immunologists, vaccinologists and pathologists. I can cite sources if you wish.

Fact is, the vaccines are leading to a super pandemic. This is becoming a pandemic of the vaccinated. In poor countries that didn't have access to vaccines, they had one huge spike in cases and now everyone has natural immunity. Their pandemic is over. In countries with high vaccination rates, the pandemic is just beginning.

Do more research. If you've already been vaccinated, you will need the boosters because your body's ability to form adaptive immunity to covid on its own has been compromised. So go get them.
Posted Today 12:12 AM (GMT 0)

VanJordan said...

Fact is, the vaccines are leading to a super pandemic. This is becoming a pandemic of the vaccinated. In poor countries that didn't have access to vaccines, they had one huge spike in cases and now everyone has natural immunity. Their pandemic is over. In countries with high vaccination rates, the pandemic is just beginning.

Do more research. If you've already been vaccinated, you will need the boosters because your body's ability to form adaptive immunity to covid on its own has been compromised. So go get them.

I just can’t with you antivaxxers, the level of ignorance is astonishing. South Africa has a 3% death rate from confirmed covid infections. Their hospitalizations are up 400+% since the beginning of November. A quick Google shows 4 spikes in the infections graph of South Africa in just this year.

You need to stop posting this garbage.
Posted Today 12:41 AM (GMT 0)

VanJordan said...


The Atlantic isn't a scientific source. Media propaganda isn't a source.

The info I'm posting is from talks by immunologists, vaccinologists and pathologists. I can cite sources if you wish.

Fact is, the vaccines are leading to a super pandemic. This is becoming a pandemic of the vaccinated. In poor countries that didn't have access to vaccines, they had one huge spike in cases and now everyone has natural immunity. Their pandemic is over. In countries with high vaccination rates, the pandemic is just beginning.

Do more research. If you've already been vaccinated, you will need the boosters because your body's ability to form adaptive immunity to covid on its own has been compromised. So go get them.

If you had bothered to read the article instead of using ad hominens, you would have seen that the article quotes several prominent immunologists and vaccine scientists. No, the article is not a scientific paper, but it quotes those who write such papers.

So, please do cite your sources. I'd like to see who they are and what they say.
Posted Today 1:52 AM (GMT 0)

beave said...

If you had bothered to read the article instead of using ad hominens, you would have seen that the article quotes several prominent immunologists and vaccine scientists. No, the article is not a scientific paper, but it quotes those who write such papers.

So, please do cite your sources. I'd like to see who they are and what they say.

Don’t tempt the antivaxxers - last time we got links from the Epoch Times, the Canadian Free Press dot com and some quack doctor who was taking horse paste and Hydroxychloroquine but still somehow got covid from his daughter and testified in front of Congress and was on CSPAN.
Posted Today 3:21 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks Keith and Everyone,

Off topic yet sorta still on...

I rely on your and everyone else's research. You would never know I have multiple degrees. Coding out during 2 operations and 3 acute kidney failures (in the last 4 or 5 years) have given me a droopy face on one side (which is getting better) and huge memory issues. So when you all research and paste it in as live I can tap on it, read it, and get some understanding.. as long as I don't start forgetting what was at the beginning... So I really appreciate you all doing that. When you all explain it.... it makes it easier for me to understand. I do like to hear other sides to try to understand why someone else holds a specific view. And when you all chime in it helps me so very much. So I just wanted to take a moment to tell you all what a special group of people you are, how very much you all help me and how very much I appreciate it and need that help.

How do you know for sure that your side is the correct side though? Doesn't it hold Tru that if someone's belief is different ..well..wouldn't they think your sources were not legit either?

I'll admit, I follow the crowd alot.
Clo
Posted Today 7:18 AM (GMT 0)

ks1905 said...
Don’t tempt the antivaxxers - last time we got links from the Epoch Times, the Canadian Free Press dot com and some quack doctor who was taking horse paste and Hydroxychloroquine but still somehow got covid from his daughter and testified in front of Congress and was on CSPAN.

Oh look, the vaccination vanguard has showed up to sling insults. Why do you make it your personal mission to stifle all discussion about the vaccination that doesn't go according to how YOU think it should?

I can post sources for anything I've claimed, if asked.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer, so stop it with the name calling, okay? I'm promoting informed consent for THIS vaccine. People are not being given all the proper information.

And if you "just can't" with me, then don't? Stop being so inflammatory.
Posted Today 7:20 AM (GMT 0)

beave said...
If you had bothered to read the article instead of using ad hominens, you would have seen that the article quotes several prominent immunologists and vaccine scientists. No, the article is not a scientific paper, but it quotes those who write such papers.

So, please do cite your sources. I'd like to see who they are and what they say.

Can you please quote one ad hominen I said?

Which claim of mine would you like me to post sources for? Be specific and I will be glad to comply.
Posted Today 8:15 AM (GMT 0)

VanJordan said...
Can you please quote one ad hominen I said?

Sure. You wrote: "The Atlantic isn't a scientific source. Media propaganda isn't a source." This is a clear attempt to smear The Atlantic without actually debating any of the points made in the article, ie, an ad hominem attack.

VanJordan said...
Which claim of mine would you like me to post sources for? Be specific and I will be glad to comply.

Sure. Here is a list of claims for which I would like to see your sources:

1. "The variants are coming from the vaccinated in general, not just immune compromised people."

2. "Non-sterilizing vaccines being given to everyone during a pandemic creates natural selection pressure that selects for the worst strains of the virus."

3. " Non-sterilizing vaccines reduce symptoms and are meant to be given to the vulnerable only, not the entire population."

4. "The rest of the herd is meant to acquire the virus and eventually develop natural immunity. This has been pandemic policy up until the recent covid one."

5. "Similarly, non-sterilizing vaccines in a global population will produce super viruses. This is fact."

6. "People compare this to polio or small pox but those were sterilizing vaccines. They killed 100% of the virus in anyone who got innoculated."

7. " the vaccines are leading to a super pandemic."

8 . "This is becoming a pandemic of the vaccinated."

9. " In countries with high vaccination rates, the pandemic is just beginning."
Posted Today 10:00 AM (GMT 0)
Which of the current variants was due to a vaccine?

Viruses mutate all the time, even with NO vaccines. The more widely a virus is allowed circulate, the sooner a variant will arise which is more infectious. The common variants that have arisen in the past 18 months (alpha, beta, gamma, delta and now omicron) are associated with places where the virus was allowed to circulate widely in a mostly unvaccinated population.

The flu vaccine gets updated every year because of the fact it mutates rapidly. We don't see it becoming a virus of the vaccinated.

If you have survived covid with relatively mild symptoms and no long term effects then you are standing in a different position than those who have not caught it and don't know how severely they would get it. It's not really fair to give those vulnerable people a distorted view of how vaccines work.

Also, there isn't a way to define who is vulnerable to covid. "Long covid" in particular doesn't care how fit and healthy you are.

Post Edited (poopydoop) : 12/2/2021 3:15:42 AM (GMT-7)

Posted Today 12:28 PM (GMT 0)

clo2014 said...

How do you know for sure that your side is the correct side though? Doesn't it hold Tru that if someone's belief is different ..well..wouldn't they think your sources were not legit either?

I'll admit, I follow the crowd alot.
Clo

All the major medical regulatory bodies like the FDA & CDC are telling us that these vaccines are studied, safe, and effective.

The Mayo Clinic put out an article about an article debunking most of the vaccine misinformation out there. They also state how safe and effective these vaccines are, multiple times.
https://www.mayoclinichealthsystem.org/hometown-health/featured-topic/covid-19-vaccine-myths-debunked
Posted Today 5:18 PM (GMT 0)

clo2014 said...

How do you know for sure that your side is the correct side though? Doesn't it hold Tru that if someone's belief is different ..well..wouldn't they think your sources were not legit either?

I'll admit, I follow the crowd alot.
Clo


Because it's not a religion! I don't have a "belief". I follow the science. Science is based on evidence and the evidence is constantly evolving. An example being at the beginning of the pandemic they were very focused on minimising physical contact between people and hand washing then later it became clear that the virus is spread predominantly by aerosols (and i will criticise the authorities here because the science was showing ventilation is critical for months before that got prioritised in national protocols).
Yes, covid vaccines have been the biggest clinical trial ever. On the other hand there is now way more safety data on them than most other medical treatments!
A part of having IBD - especially refractory forms - is that you end up on new drugs for which there is limited clinical data on long term safety. A lot less data than there are for covid vaccines. Yet somehow because a vaccine involves someone sticking a needles into you rather than taking a pill (or infusion) it's for whatever reason seen as more sinister?
I took the vaccines based on risk assessment: what is the likelihood of having a severe or long case of covid versus the likelihood of having an adverse reaction to the vaccine. Because all of us will be exposed to covid sooner or later, those are our options unless you're a hermit on a desert island. For me the difference in risks was so big it was obvious to get vaccinated. And i even took an Astrazeneca vaccine which DOES have risk of a fatal thrombosis. The mRNA vaccines are safer in that regard but apparently it sounds too much like DNA and that freaks some people out.
Posted Today 5:27 PM (GMT 0)
And regarding "sources" of information. The reliable sources are scientific publications in reputable, established journals and have undergone a rigorous peer review process. And even then those publications may be superseded by new data or may contain errors that are found later. But because those publications are hard for a non specialist to understand in detail, then the national regulatory bodies will put the key findings into more accessible language. And if you don't trust your own government then check what other countries are advising. There is enough political diversity in the world that they don't all have the same biases. So common themes are likely to be robust. Meta-analyses on internet pages do not count as a reliable source.
Posted Today 5:31 PM (GMT 0)

VanJordan said...
People are not being given all the proper information.

Yeah, they are not being given the proper information by you.

Yale Medical put together a page for who are in "Special Populations and the COVID-19 vaccine"
https://yalehealth.yale.edu/yale-covid-19-vaccine-program/information-special-populations-and-covid-19-vaccine

Basically everyone should take this vaccine, there is only a small subset who shouldn't take the mRNA vaccines because of an allergy to one of their ingredients. And they even have an alternative vaccine. These are safe, effective, and well studied vaccines. Every major medical regulatory body, every major medical center, and every major medical association recommends taking the vaccines because they save lives and cut down on the risk of spread. Even the Pope recommends taking the vaccines - he is prolife.

Not taking a vaccine against a deadly virus is not safe, you are putting your life and other's at risk.
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