Van Jordan/Dr. Pravda (antioxidant method

Pravdas protocol has nothing to do with taking a bunch of antioxidants. It is a medical enema with mesalamine, budesonide, sodium cromolyn, and sodium butyrate administered for 8 weeks along with an oral reducing agent r-dihydrolipoic acid.

mesalamine is also an antioxidant.

The role of butyrate in UC has been known for many years (try googling) and is even taught to medical students.

Post Edited (poopydoop) : 8/17/2022 6:12:09 AM (GMT-7)

Luluu said...
Ive had my eye on this all the way through and it looks to me like Van Jordan is being wound up and then gas lit. Can't believe the forum admin are letting it happen. The discussions here around this theory have been very interesting and I have personally got a lot out of this. I'm taking antioxidants now and feeling so much better my bms are normal with no blood or anything within a couple of months. So thank you Van Jordan and others who have been discussing it. I hope that Dr Pravdas paper will be looked at by many people and that it will encourage and inspire more research. I'm going to see if I can get hold of the protocol items he wrote about.

Totally agree with your statement….I asked Van Jordan a question & I had a couple members immediately start questioning me about my sons care…if he had talked to his doctor etc As I stated we are adults capable of sorting through the information and deciding if we want try the supplements Van Jordan has researched and used to achieve the success he has had! I see Them as the “know it all bullies” not Van Jordan!

VJ,
Can you temporarily make your email address visible so some of us can send you private messages. Thanks.

@ IAC & Van Jordon, do not post your email address in a post as it will be deleted, look at the forum rule about personal information.

you can put your email address in your profile & only members will be able to see it.

Other things to discuss for those that don't have an immediate way to get access to the enema. I will explore the enema with my GI at next appt in Nov.

Ubiquinol - reduced form of CoQ10, good anti-oxidant?
Liposomal Gluthathione - would seem to be better just to boost bodies ability to produce rather than take it as a supplement
Partially Hydrolyzed Guar Gum - Butyric Acid support, shifts gut microbiome
Aribinogalactin - upregulates NK cells which downregulates neutrophils in colon (source of H2O2).
NADH - reduced form of Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide...could this be an alternative to RDLA? Not sure if this acts intracellularly which could be a problem.

Now that we know have a plausible working theory around the main cause of UC, we can finally have a more focused and productive discussion around supplements, diet, and other factors that may contribute to excess H2O2. Very exciting times.

CCinPA said...
mesalamine and budenoside (a steroid) are traditional meds. Are the others antioxidants? Most of what I have seen talked about on these threads about this are a long list of supplements. Has anyone tried the enemas? I wouldn't be surprised if they work (at least short term) because of the meds in them.

I think you are underestimating the potential power of this enema. All the ingredients work together to stop a self perpetuating feedback loop. Sure Mesalamine and budesonide are already effective, but the true feedback loop stopper is the addition of Sodium Butyrate and Sodium Cromolyn with an oral reducing agent that acts intracellularly. These all work together to stop various components of the self perpetuating feedback loop. Leave one out and relapse or lack of full remission/healing is almost certain.

I can't force you to read the paper, but I think you'd find it quite enlightening. And I don't mean skim it, took me 3 hours on the first read through because it is very dense with a lot of technical language that I had to look up definitions on. And I picked up a ton more on my second read given how dense it is. Pravda is on to something big here, but it needs more work and higher quality studies to verify and therein lies the challenge as billions of dollars annually are at stake.

I've had UC for 11 years and read hundreds maybe even thousands of medical paper on the topic. I've never read anything remotely as compelling as the Pravda paper published yesterday.

Here you go - https://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/full/v28/i31/4263.htm

Pravda paper live link. You first have to click the + reply option.
To make a live link,click url,then paste link,thin click url again.
Oldmike


https://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/full/v28/i31/4263.htm

Bacteria and peroxides, we also see not all peroxides are from immune cells.Oldmike
https://www.jpp.krakow.pl/journal/archive/12_09_s6/pdf/49_12_09_s6_article.pdf

here we see normal amounts peroxide seem to help too much is a problem
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc5835490/

and now they found peroxide determines spatial distribution of bacteria.
https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/hydrogen-peroxide-keeps-gut-bacteria-away-from-the-colon-lining-/2020/12

There is no point in talking about mesalamine or other 5-ASAs. Although they have a mild antioxidant function, it is insufficient for a lot of UC sufferers because the action is topical. 5-ASAs do not interact with the intracellular machinery that regulate H2O2. It can only possibly neutralize some topical H2O2. And because they are derivatives of salicylic acid, they cause similar side effects for some people in terms of disturbance to the GI lining. When I took 5-ASAs orally, I had stomach bleeding. When I took them rectally, my rectum became so inflamed that I had a rectal prolapse. I realize they work for some people but for those of us who are highly refractory, there is literally no point.

Again, the usual suspects can't seem to understand what is making people upset. They think it's that we don't want Pravda criticized whatsoever, when actually it's that you're vile, vicious bullies who are personally attacking posters on this forum for simply saying that modern medicine has a poor track record -- because it does. But the responses to simple discussion have been sociopathic. They are vicious bullies who attack your humanity rather than discuss ideas, and then when you call them on it, they attack you more.

If you weren't so defensive and personally attacking people, there would not have been hostilities. You started it. So you can stop at any time and we can resume our adult conversation about treatment alternatives. Seriously, just stop.

Conventional medicine does not work on my UC. I literally have zero interest in talking about it. It's useless and holds no interest for me. I have been researching alternatives for years now. That's where my interest lies. Not because I'm "anti-modern medicine" but because it doesn't work. I will not continue to waste my life looking at what conventional medicine does. If it works for you, great. All the power to you. I am here to discuss alternatives, which is why it's offensive when the usual suspects show up to change the goal posts and start personally attacking me, calling me a "quack" and accusing me of thinking HW is my little kingdom just because I want one thread dedicated to discussing an alternative without a bunch of karens showing up to try and persuade people to talk about conventional medicine. I am innocent of wrongdoing. I am simply a patient looking for alternatives for my disease. I do not want a colectomy. I want to live, I don't want to die.

Now go away. Seriously... leave me alone. You are irrelevant.

Mike, you mentioned that taking SOD made your UC worse. I don't necessarily think it's because it converted too much superoxide to hydrogen peroxide, although that is one possibility. SOD has to be regenerated by antioxidants (see the illustration in Pravda's latest paper) in order to be reused. If you increase SOD, it gets used one time, then floats around in its oxidized state, which consumes even more of the cell's reducing factors, which leads to a net decrease in the cell's ability to reduce hydrogen peroxide. The same thing happens when you take ALA instead of DHLA, as Pravda described in his paper. ALA makes UC patients worse, because it's oxidized.

It's very difficult for manufacturers to make the reduced form of enzymes because they can't have contact with atmosphere. Once they interact with oxygen, they become oxidized. So it's likely you were just taking the oxidized form of SOD, which the body then had to reduce, which then wasted reducing factors. The net effect is a higher oxidation state in your body = more H2O2 produced = worse UC. This adds proof to the hypothesis that it's intracellular H2O2 because bacteria can't take an oxidized supplement and make more H2O2. It would have to be your own cells doing it.

It's interesting that you raise the question of hydrogen peroxide being produced by gut bacteria. I suspect this is not the case because if it were, then consuming ALA would not make UC patients worse. The cells would take the extra ALA, convert it to DHLA, and then reduce the hydrogen peroxide. It's more than likely that the excess hydrogen peroxide is coming from something genetic, like SOD mutations, or some inherent inability to regenerate GPx/glutathione. That's what I'm betting on.

Since I've been in remission, I don't even take probiotics. My sense is that once the mucosa heals, gut bacteria sort themselves out. I can even eat garbage food and, although I don't like how it makes me feel, it doesn't trigger my UC. And I am normally refractory. The antioxidant protocol prevents the peroxide fallout.

This research is incredible! It clearly points to a redox problem being the root cause of UC.

VanJordan said...

This is incorrect. A major portion of the latest paper talks about RDLA which is a strong antioxidant that regenerates the other antioxidants of the cell, like glutathione. It is apparently pivotal to the protocol, which I underestimated.

Even if we can't obtain RDLA, it means that taking antioxidants is a crucial part of this protocol because they are what regenerate GPx, glutathione, and SOD.

So we agree? I was responding to people saying all you have to do is take a million different supplemental antioxidants. Pravda's protocol has nothing to do with taking a BUNCH of antioxidants. It has ONE oral antioxidant. Than an enema with four components, none of which are considered antioxidant supplements even though mesalamine could be argued as a pharmaceutical antioxidant...but its not usually described this way.