HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Gotta Read This

Support Forums
>
Ulcerative Colitis
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 12/31/2008 5:50 AM (GMT 0)
Kim123 you're gonna love this:

http://www.campaignfortruth.com/Eclub/271003/irritablebowel.htm 

Comments most welcome

Posted 12/31/2008 6:04 AM (GMT 0)
Wow! I just read this....I wonder if it's coincidence that my flare-up started around the time I began eating oatmeal every day for breakfast?!?! And I thought it was doing me good....???
Posted 12/31/2008 6:31 AM (GMT 0)
I posted that article a while back, but now I tend not to believe the fungal link that much. I talked to my doc about trying some anti-fungals he said not to bother sicne if the cause is pathogen it is most likely a bacteria like h. pylori or c. diff. I tend to believe that route more than fungus or parasite.
Posted 12/31/2008 12:33 PM (GMT 0)

Ontario_Girl said...
Wow! I just read this....I wonder if it's coincidence that my flare-up started around the time I began eating oatmeal every day for breakfast?!?! And I thought it was doing me good....???

I doubt oatmeal is the cause because I eat oatmeal every morning and have been in remission for over two and a half years.

Posted 1/1/2009 8:25 AM (GMT 0)
Hmm seems to make sense to me. It is very possible that a micro-fungus is what is making my body attack itself. After I got my wisdom teeth removed I started to get colitis. I have lately been drinking mostly water, instead of drinks higher in sugar. It seems to be helping. Then again there has been some link to a pathogenic strain of E. coli.
Posted 1/2/2009 5:16 AM (GMT 0)
It is possible that fungus play a part in IBDs, but I can't give them all the credit. I think it takes a whole bunch of different factors that come together in a perfect storm (IBD) for some of us. I have friends and family members who have had my same diet, medicine usage, and other risk factors who did not come down with an IBD. It is just us lucky ones.

If someone does come up with a concrete reason for why some get IBD and others don't, I'll be the first to believe their data, but I've seen way too many differing opinions in articles, web sites, supplement manufacturers, medical practitioners, and such.

Maybe getting an IBD is just the luck of the draw...
Posted 1/2/2009 9:03 AM (GMT 0)
I think that there is a huge bias with the article considering the site that it's from. As well...UC and CD are NOT...irritable bowel syndrome as it states in the link. geeeeee whizzzz. get it right already!

If fungus is an issue, it's separate. All sorts of things trigger immune response in the body. Regarding Celiac disease, gluten is a poison to the person and can never, ever, ever have gluten because the small intestines are totally reactive to it, no matter what.

q
Posted 1/2/2009 10:11 AM (GMT 0)
The author made no real attempt to come to any type of conclusion. I was left saying, "ok, so what's the point?"

Regardless of the trigger, be it bacterial, viral, fungal, whatever, it doesn't really matter. It is the inability to turn off the immune response that does all the damage.

I do believe there is some kind of weird balance in the gut flora that has alot to do with UC. What may give a non-IBD person a small spell of diarrhea seems to create a cascade of prolonged negative reactions in the IBD prone individual. Other than that-- its throwing darts in the dark.
Posted 1/2/2009 5:48 PM (GMT 0)
ucwarrior- I think the author was saying that fungus can sometimes be the misdignosed, underlying factor in diseases, such as UC or Crohn's. He concludes by saying that one way to find out is to go on a low-carb diet (eliminate grains and sugar for awhile, they contain mycotoxins and feed fungus) and take natural or prescriptive anti-fungals.

Quincy- not sure where you read in the article that UC and Crohn's are the same as IBS. It did say they were a form of IBD..different than IBS. By the way, as you had asked, the beta-glucan I take is from the website mentioned in the article...nsc24.com. It is different than other glucans as it is patented, micronized, allowing it to reach our immune receptors. Since I started taking them 3 years ago, (and I teach elementary school), I have not been sick one time, not even a sniffle. Could be a coincidence, but I'll continue, just in case :)

crazytrain- my doctor told me the same thing. Interestingly, being tired of being sick and tired, I didn't follow his advice, went on an antifungal diet, and got well again. Don't dismiss anything just because someone else, even your doctor, tells you it nothing will change. Change is most often what one needs. If you always do what you've always done, expect the same results.

Ontario_Girl, oatmeal is not bad for you. However, "if" fungus is an issue for you, oatmeal is high-carb, and you would be trying to starve the fungus by eating lo-carb foods, initially. Oatmeal is not as susceptible of containing fungus as wheat and corn. I eat oatmeal now with no problems.

bbc- yes, I have known about that article for a long time, as it is because of Doug Kaufmann that I am well today. More on him, his diet, and his credentials can be read on www.knowthecause.com
Posted 1/2/2009 7:18 PM (GMT 0)

kim123 said...


crazytrain- my doctor told me the same thing. Interestingly, being tired of being sick and tired, I didn't follow his advice, went on an antifungal diet, and got well again. Don't dismiss anything just because someone else, even your doctor, tells you it nothing will change. Change is most often what one needs. If you always do what you've always done, expect the same results.

kim123 Im interested in a few things. You say you went on an anti-fungal diet (low-carb low sugar). Have you also taken prescription anti-fungals and if you did which ones? Also, I believe that the anti-fungal diet you mention also applies as an anti-pathogenic-bacteria diet.

When I brought up the fungus link to my doc he mentioned c.diff which is a type of UC caused by a pathogenic c. diff bacteria (which kind of blew my mind since I never heard of an actual bacterial link to UC). I think he also pointed to the example of h. pylori to indicate a bacterial link might be more likely.
I am primarily interested if you tried any prescription anti-fungals.
Posted 1/2/2009 8:10 PM (GMT 0)
I think the author makes a case for fungal infection as a misdiagnosis for IBS, not IBD. Many of his examples are just too vague or isolated to be considered. If the foods you eat are in fact contaminated with mycotoxins, they would cause inflammation and diarrhea not IBD, as there are no infective properties of a fungal metabolite (toxin). Spores and buds maybe, but not toxins.

Why would the doctor not see frothy, creamy, white and wooly stuff in the intestine associated with the inflammation of fungus when he scoped his patient? Would he not take a biop to rule out pathogen-induced colitis before he made his diagnosis. What about stool pathology tests? Would fungal metabolites be evident in all UC/CD patients' stools if this were a true fungal infection?

These are only a few of the reasons that I have talked myself out of yeast causing my colitis. I thought that a while back but not now. I think it is a bit more complicated when dealing with IBD as opposed to IBS. If fungus is a problem with immuno compromised individuals, what gave them the immune compromization in the first place? What makes the IBD patient different than a healthy person in regards to being prone for infectious agents? Why does the IBD patient have difficulty self-regulating normal bowel function as opposed to the general public?

Why is America fueled by refined starches and sugars and we all don't have fungal induced IBD? A predisposition to this disease is apparent at a genetic level. Informative article just a little rough around the edges to be taken seriously.
Posted 1/2/2009 8:57 PM (GMT 0)
No, I didn't use prescription anti-fungals. My doctor told me I would be wasting my time changing my diet ("food doesn't affect UC symptoms"), so I figured he would not write one for me. After reading the book, "The Fungus Link" by the infamous Doug Kaufmann this article alluded to, I decided on my own to experiment with the diet. I used olive leaf extract for the first few months and then rotated that with caprylic acid. I have read that some people may actually need a prescription strength anti-fungal to completely heal. Dunno.

O. leaf is a superb anti-microbial agent. If you have a fungal, viral or bacterial problem, I suspect o. leaf will kill whatever ails you. I took 2 capsules, 3 times a day to really annihilate the fungus (thinking I may have it). I had a lot of die-off symptoms so I figured I was on the right track. The diet I went on was NO sugar. The only carbs I ate were in the veggies (no corn- a grain, potatoes, or mushrooms), allowed berries, green apples, grapefruit, lemon, and meat, fish, poultry, eggs, plain yogurt and real butter. Lots of water, NO artificial anything.

I don't think one can argue that bacteria or fungus is solely the villain in UC or Crohn's. If fungus is the problem, anti-fungal therapy will improve ones' symptoms. Doctors are not educated much in the study of mycology (fungus), however, so it behooves one to do their own research and make informed decisions about their health.
Posted 1/2/2009 9:10 PM (GMT 0)

crazytrain411 said...
When I brought up the fungus link to my doc he mentioned c.diff which is a type of UC caused by a pathogenic c. diff bacteria (which kind of blew my mind since I never heard of an actual bacterial link to UC). I think he also pointed to the example of h. pylori to indicate a bacterial link might be more likely.

c.difficile isn't a type of UC...it is, however, a type of colitis called pseudomembranous colitis.

The trigger for UC could very well be bacterial, but that would again be a separate issue.  One can have both, given the fact that a compromised colon can allow the overgrowth of c.diff. since we do have it in our colons anyway.  It's also easy to pick it up from hand to mouth...considering how many people don't wash their hands.  In a compromised person (for whatever reasons), that could very well take over.

Regarding h.pylori.  I don't believe it lives anywhere else except the stomach (upper gastro)...but haven't done much research on it since I don't have it...so I doubt it's a cause for UC which starts in the lower part of the colon...far away from the stomach.  I would think it would have been hopeful as to being a cause and tested once the discovery regarding stomach ulcers came forth.

I do believe that with some patients, the first infection/assult in our colons, if it were treated quickly and aggressively, it may prevent as being a trigger for UC.  But....that would be difficult to prove since the predisposition seems to be a link that cannot be discounted.

q

Posted 1/2/2009 9:16 PM (GMT 0)
Kim...the link itself states irritable bowel. That's what I mean.

Regarding Beta glucan, I saw a very interesting link regarding how it ups certain parts of the immune system. It might have been a link connecting the one you take. Must check that out.

When I went to the nutrition store, the only beta glucan they had was oat. I'm still interested in trying it and for my husband as well considering it touts viral "destruction"...lol!

A school is the best place to recognise one's immune system and how it's working considering where those hands have been. When I worked in a school, I learned quickly to NOT share my things or use theirs. I was sick the whole last year I worked in the school with vertigo 24/7, laryngitis and colds. Interestingly, my UC was pretty good. I did have a lot of emotional stress. Eventually, I was treated for a sinus infection...I don't ever want to get like that again. But I wouldn't be working in a school again..so that would help.

q
Posted 1/2/2009 9:33 PM (GMT 0)
q- Beta 1,3 Glucan is found in reishi, shiitake, and maitake mushrooms if you would like to find an alternative source. I read alot about it back in college for its anti-cancer properties. Cool thing with Beta 1,3 is that it does not over stimulate the immune system so it is safer for autoimmune disease than other immune stimulants.
Posted 1/2/2009 9:44 PM (GMT 0)
Right, that's important for UCers. I kind of learned that taking Cold FX, being sick over the past 2 months with the same thing and then bleeding a teeny bit with my flare just before Christmas.

From what I saw on the Beta glucan...it doesn't recognise cancer cells...but if they're infected with viral or yeast, it'll attack.

Does that make sense with what you learned in college?

q
Posted 1/3/2009 5:46 AM (GMT 0)
Yes everything you said is correct. It has a remarkable ability to enhance the body's macrophages, neutrophils and killer cells to fight off viruses, bacteria, parasites, and fungi.
I was doing research for a microbiology paper and came across some studies from back in the 60s on this guy isolating Beta Glucan from bakers yeast. I read over more and more experiments and I ended up doing the paper on Beta Glucan. It is a rather fascinating molecule with seemingly limitless applications for innate immune magnification.

Its application for cancer: From what I remember, a surface receptor of neutrophils (w. blood cells not normally involved in the fight against cancer) has two receptor sites itself. The first site binds to a blood protein that has bound to a pathogen antibodies have already tagged. The second binds to the [foreign] carb on the pathogen. If, and only if, both of these sites are activated the neutrophil gets the green light and the pathogen is terminated.

The tricky part is that tumor-bound inactive neutrophils recognize cancer cells as "me" due to their lack of ability to bind to a foreign carb. Therefore it does not complete the second signal and the cell is left alone. Fragmented Beta Glucan binds to the second site, called priming, and allows the neutrophil to treat the cancer cell as a pathogen after it binds to the already tagged tumor cell. Termination ensues.

I would imagine that this could also be the mechanics that allows Beta Glucan its increased immune responses to infectious diseases. This priming with fragmented Beta Glucan has the neutrophil roaming the body waiting on just one signal and looking for a fight. As soon as the pathogen is tagged by an antibody- ZAP! Foreign carb or not...
Posted 1/3/2009 8:03 AM (GMT 0)
thanks for the clarification.

So, could you or Kim tell me about the oat beta glucan...it's not isolated, right? As much as I love oats (I'm scottish ..lol)...my guts pop and groan . It' OK for a once in a while thing..but not daily. How would oat beta glucan relate to oats in general?

The girl at the nutrition place described it as "basically fibre"...but she was running out the door and I thought I best do some research to know what to look for.

q
Posted 1/3/2009 6:23 PM (GMT 0)
Beta glucan is a polysaccharide. The best bang for the buck is the yeast-based kind. It has something to do with its molecular structure and increased bio activity over the other kinds. I think the mushroom kind might be good too. Not sure.

Just eating the foods containing beta glucan does not work cause beta glucan must be fragmented, or activated for it to absorb into the body and to work its mojo. There are alot of junk products out there containing beta glucan in its raw state.

When shopping around look for beta glucan derived from yeast. Then look at the info panel for percentage of active linkage. Active linkage (the 1,3/1,6 arrangement) is what you are looking for. The FDA only makes the product companies list milligrams of beta glucan. If it is not activated it is worthless. A good product will describe percentages of active linkages.
Posted 1/3/2009 7:59 PM (GMT 0)
Mumbles, my colitis started after I got my wisdom teeth out too....fall of 2005. That is weird.....
Posted 1/3/2009 11:56 PM (GMT 0)
Quincy- If you have not already looked at the NSC.com website, there is a Q and A page (see link below) which answers some of your questions about beta-glucan (BG)...which are better (yeast-derived compared to grain, etc.), how does beta-glucan help, why micronized is better, BG and cancer treatment, etc. I am NOT in any way trying to promote this, or any other brand. Just passing some BG info your way. To each their own............

http://www.nsc24.com/questions.htm

Kim
Posted 1/4/2009 8:16 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Kim...I'll check it out. Now, yeast derived....wouldn't it be yeast from grains?

I'll check out the site and see if my question can be answered.

q
Posted 1/4/2009 10:39 PM (GMT 0)

kim123 said...
No, I didn't use prescription anti-fungals. My doctor told me I would be wasting my time changing my diet ("food doesn't affect UC symptoms"), so I figured he would not write one for me. After reading the book, "The Fungus Link" by the infamous Doug Kaufmann this article alluded to, I decided on my own to experiment with the diet. I used olive leaf extract for the first few months and then rotated that with caprylic acid. I have read that some people may actually need a prescription strength anti-fungal to completely heal. Dunno.

O. leaf is a superb anti-microbial agent. If you have a fungal, viral or bacterial problem, I suspect o. leaf will kill whatever ails you. I took 2 capsules, 3 times a day to really annihilate the fungus (thinking I may have it). I had a lot of die-off symptoms so I figured I was on the right track. The diet I went on was NO sugar. The only carbs I ate were in the veggies (no corn- a grain, potatoes, or mushrooms), allowed berries, green apples, grapefruit, lemon, and meat, fish, poultry, eggs, plain yogurt and real butter. Lots of water, NO artificial anything.

I don't think one can argue that bacteria or fungus is solely the villain in UC or Crohn's. If fungus is the problem, anti-fungal therapy will improve ones' symptoms. Doctors are not educated much in the study of mycology (fungus), however, so it behooves one to do their own research and make informed decisions about their health.

kim you say you used olive leaf extract and caprylic acid where its intended use was as a superb anti-microbial agent. Im interested in why you think it was targetting a fungus precisely in your case.
Also you say it cleared off after a few months after the anti-microbial treatment? Have you had flareups since then?
Posted 1/5/2009 1:45 AM (GMT 0)
I did not know for sure when I experimented with the anti-fungal diet and supplements that I had a fungal problem. I chose to try it because everything I had read indicated that fungus can cause symptoms like the ones I had, among others. And, there was no "exit program" with the prescribed meds I was taking, so I was willing to give it a shot. As well, I was an ideal candidate for someone likely to have a fungal infection,... a high fungal quotient, I guess you could say. I had ringworm as a child, taken antibiotics in my teen years for outbreaks of strep and after the birth of my firstborn (incidently, my UC symptoms appeared right after that), I had been on birth control pills for a number of years, had many yeast infections, I grew up in a house that was moldy and mildewy, especially in the basement where my bedroom was, I later lived in a house that had previous water damage and flooding (again, where my first symptoms appeared), and I loved and ate a LOT of bread and corn products, known to be contaminated with mycotoxins.

I guess I can't "swear 100%" that my issues were fungus, but reflecting on my fungi exposure, and the fact that I was significantly better (90% or more) after being on an anti-fungal program for 2 weeks, eventually becoming symptom-free, I have to go by the cause/effect theory.

Have I had a flare since...well, to tell the truth, I went through a period of time where after feeling so well for so long, that I started going back to my old eating habits, unlimited bread, sweets, drinking wine more often, etc. and the symptoms started appearing again. So, what did I do? I went back on the program, and after having 4 days of incredibly ugly die-off effects, was once again symptom-free within a short time. Coincidence? I guess each can draw their own conclusion. Other than the "blip" I had, I am still symptom-free for 7 years now. I am, however, much more careful with what goes in my mouth. I know now the path I must take, probably for the rest of my life. Again, I firmly believe the probiotics and beta-glucan have been instrumental in my good health, as well.
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply