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Posted 6/10/2010 2:35 PM (GMT 0)
I'm on day 6 of the SCD. I've been doing it very legalistically and following it to the best of my ability with no exceptions except chamomile tea the first 2 days, then i found out it was illegal. Some days I don't have much stool, I think because I'm not eating as much as I'm used to. My question is that I still saw very noticeable blood in my stool today. Does that mean its not going to work for me or that I just need more time? How long should I go on it until I should expect the blood to subside?

Also, I've been holding off on the yogurt b/c it gave me a lot of D the day I ate it... hasn't returned since I stopped eating it. I havn't taken probiotics yet b/c the pecanbread.com website said to wait awhile, and I'm waiting for my legal ones to come in the mail.

Anyone with experience in this, I would appreciate it very much.

Emma

Emma

24 year old female
-Diagnosed with UC in 2004 -Colazal (had no results with Colazal)
-Hospitalized with sever Pancolitis is 2005 (Prednisone, 6mp)
-Remission
-2006 quit 6mp b/c it made my hair fall out
-flare in 2008 (Prednisone)
-Remission
-Asacol
-Flare fall 2009 to present (tried Prednisone, but bleeding continued after tapering)
-Current meds Asacol (12, 400mg pills a day)
Posted 6/10/2010 3:30 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Emma
Although my bleeding stopped quickly with the removal of gluten I am convinced that everyone is different in their recovery. As I think I mentioned I tried this diet (and others) in the past and had no remission. I found it necessary to remove more foods (for me it was yogurt, fruit and juices) from SCD this last time before I achieved success.

It took me several (3) months to get slowly better from other symptoms that I considered worse than bleeding because they affected my daily life soooo much. The usual: urgency and diarrhea. Of course now I know that although I didn't mind the blood as much as the other symptoms it is really important to fix the ulcerations which cause bleeding before any meaningful healing can take place.
Maybe it's because I'm female that the bleeding didn't bother me so much. But it's the first step to getting better.

I think if you are not getting worse that's a good thing. Many people have worse symptoms on SCD due to the bad gut flora "dieing off". I did not have that happen but then I got better very slowly too. Blueclassring seemed to get better faster but had bad reactions in the beginning. Everyone is different.

I think you are right not to start the probiotic right away. Better to do things one-by-one so you can tell if something is bothering you when you introduce something new.

I've tried so many different supplements and failed with them where others have had success.
Go slow, be patient. Remember the doctors motto "First do no harm".

Best wishes and good luck.
Posted 6/10/2010 4:08 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Imagardner. I think the reason the the blood is the main issue for me is b/c in the past I've lost so much blood that I had to get blood transfusions and became severly anemic from it. Basically, I would have died from blood loss without modern medicine.

How can you tell if the juices are fruits are bothering you? I have very little grape juice throughout hte day and yesterday was the first day I added anything off the intro and added banana pancakes. I don't feel like anything is bothering me and am only really having 1-2 stools a day, yes they are loose, but not severely urgent. I guess to me the blood is the sign of a flare up being serious, so that's why I'm really stressed when I see blood.

I don't feel like the juice and banana are bothering me, do you think its ok to continue them??

Thanks,
Emma
Posted 6/10/2010 4:46 PM (GMT 0)
Trust your body. It will tell you if there's a problem. Although in my case I could not tell that gluten was affecting me, it did not cause any obvious symptoms like gas or D or anything directly. That is why it took me so long to try gluten-free (plus the test done at doctors office said I was not sensitive to gluten-which was wrong).

Like you I've been hospitalized for anemia but at the time it wasn't directly due to UC (I think).

I think you would be able to tell if juice and fruit were a problem if you had gas or D. The goal is to keep sugar (including fruit/juice) to a minimum so as to starve the bad gut flora out. And then afterward (see princesa's posts) introduce anti-fungals to kill them off while taking probiotics to re-introduce the good gut flora.

This is where I'm at now, proceeding carefully not wanting to go backwards in remission. I've been taking probiotics for a couple months but just starting antifungals. Have to take them at different times of the day or they will be doing opposite things, killing the good guys, etc. Science was never my strong point but I've learned a lot from people on this forum.

6 days is early days although I'm sure it feel like a looong time to you because of the radical diet restrictions. Hope you are feeling fine otherwise.
Best regards.
Posted 6/10/2010 5:10 PM (GMT 0)
ok... thanks. i could tell the yogurt was too much for me now b/c of frequent D for several hours after eating it and i haven't had any of that for the banana or juice. should i add a vegetable like a squash next then since it is lower in sugars?

so what's a basic outline on timeline to start probiotics and antifungals?? should i hold out on the probiotics longer? also, how can i find that post about antifungals?

thanks,
emma
Posted 6/10/2010 5:15 PM (GMT 0)
here is the post I was thinking of
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=1816922&g=1821238#m1821238

you can email her by clicking on her name it brings up her email address
OR you can also do a post here titling it "princesa" with your question. that way we can all benefit from the answer. :-)
Posted 6/10/2010 6:00 PM (GMT 0)
Great. Thanks so much... and i just got my scd legal probiotics in the mail. should i start with a little now, or wait?

Also, I was thinking of adding a cooked vegetable next, like squash b/c of less sugar... is that what I should do? Even though I'm not "on the intro" anymore, I feel like I am b/c I'm only adding one thing every couple of days...

Thanks,
Emma
Posted 6/10/2010 6:37 PM (GMT 0)
Don't get discouraged. Six days is very little time to expect dramatic results from dietary changes. Dietary changes and other alternative approaches tend to take longer for noticeable effects than medications. This is why I feel it's beneficial to use a combination of traditional and alternative approaches. It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. Even the author of Breaking the Vicious Cycle, Elaine Gotschall, admits meds have their place in crisis situations. I don't have a copy of BTVC handy, but I believe Elaine advises to try the diet strictly for at least 4-6 weeks before giving up. Hopefully, someone else who's following the SCD can chime in here.

Definitely avoid the yogurt for now, since it's obviously disagreeing with you. Everyone has different "safe" foods - even the intro diet disagreed with me - but here are the SCD foods that worked for me: lean white meat of chicken and turkey, scrambled eggs or omelets, almond or cashew butters, soft cooked green beans, carrots and english peas, baked winter squashes, baked or steamed zuchinni and crookneck/summer squash, baked apples and pears, flavored natural apple sauces, olive oil, avacado, SCD cheeses in moderation for flavoring, homemade stews in the crockpot with veggies and organic chicken or lean beef.

I would go ahead with the probiotics, but ramp up your dose gradually, if possible. Many folks suffer some gas and/or slight discomfort when starting. You may want to hold off on any antifungals until you get the probiotics going and see how you do. Again, it's easier on your system to introduce one thing at a time and it helps you be able to tell what's working and what isn't.
Posted 6/15/2010 5:46 PM (GMT 0)
By day 11, I'm doing a little better... lets hope it stays that way!!

One more question. How long after taking out a food that you felt like caused D, can you try adding it back in? I felt like after bananas I had some D and I took them out and it hasn't happened since, but I'm not 100% sure it was from the bananas... I really want to make smoothies with them again! So how long should I wait before trying them again?

Emma
Posted 6/15/2010 6:07 PM (GMT 0)
i would wait longer before i added in the bananas. they are really high in sugar and if you have candida it will feed on banan's really quickly. if you have candida then your body will try to get rid of it by having D. Im not actually sure when i will add them back into my diet. your body will let you know. I stick with 1 apple a day at the moment. I know i need to let the candida population move down in my body before i try the fruit. I suggest stick with meats and high green vegetables for at least 2 months and see if your symptoms disapear. then you will know what is going on with your body. eat only 1 piece of fruit a day. eg. 1 apple, 1 pear, 1 kiwi. If your bleeding does disappear in those 2 months by eleminating all the sugar then you will know that you have candida. for me it will take me a long time before i am able to go back to a high fruit diet. I think there are people on give it to me raw that have done high green and high fat diets for 2 years before going to a high fruit diet. hope this helps.
Posted 6/15/2010 6:17 PM (GMT 0)
emma
glad things are improving for you.

I was very slow in improvement so I didn't try adding things back in until the 5th month, didn't want to backslide. 11 days is VERY early to add stuff. It is restrictive I know. Takes a mighty will to get better and resist food temptations.
Have you made nut flour muffins yet? I make them with shredded carrot so it's not all nut flour which can slow digestion down a lot. really really good. Kinda like carrot cake.

I agree with hellokitty about bananas and sugar. Once you are solidly better they won't cause D, may instead be on the C side of things :-)
Posted 6/15/2010 6:25 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for the advice. I was just following the pecanbread website about the different stages of what to add. They said bananas, squash, pears and apples are the stage 1 things to add in first.
see here http://pecanbread.com/p/how/stages.html

I've felt like I was being very slow in adding stuff, but I know I'm not supposed to stay on intro, so i've been adding a new item every 2 days or so.

So far beyond the intro, i've added butternut squash, zuchini, homemade applesauce (just tried yesterday but i'm doing fine now). tried yogurt but dx, tried bananas but dx. What else should I add if i don't do fruits? Should I start adding more veggies faster? The pecanbread site makes nutflour sound like its an advanced food that should be waited on, but i'd love to eat something like that... what do you think? I need some more things to add to keep my weight on. My mom's gonna kill me if i loose more weight, it worries her :)

Emma
Posted 6/15/2010 6:26 PM (GMT 0)
It took me about 3 weeks before I really saw some good results(no urgency, bulked up stools, no blood or mucus).  IT was a dramatic improvement.  I was on prednisone for two weeks but decided to stop it because it wasn't working, and it didn't make me feel good.  I also started taking Asacol, which I since stopped as well. 

Right now, I am still feeling that I am in remission.  I have a lot of skin inflammation(maybe due to food allergies, but not sure), but aside from that my problems are going away.  I also have a really bad staph infection that has since spread since the diet started, so I don't know if this is die-off or what.  I am taking olive leaf extract, apple cider vinegar & honey, and may start taking doxycycline as well.

It's good to be in remission, but it's hard to sleep when your entire body is itching. 

Posted 6/15/2010 6:27 PM (GMT 0)
Avoid the yogurt and nut flours in the beginning. My body could not tolerated them at the beginning.
Posted 6/15/2010 6:42 PM (GMT 0)
so, hellokitty and imagardner... based on my response, what do you think i should start adding into my diet??

and imagardner, i didn't quite understand what you meant that you didn't add things for 5 months... what do you mean? surely you didn't stay on the intro for 5 months...??
thanks so much
emma
Posted 6/15/2010 8:17 PM (GMT 0)
no emma. I didn't stay on the intro more than 4 days.

I meant I didn't add things that were a problem for ME back in until I was well into remission (5 months).
SCD allows fruit, juice, homemade yogurt after intro but these caused me problems so I removed them from my version of SCD. You may be fine with all their allowable foods. Bananas are allowable after intro IIRC but you are thinking they could be a problem for you so keep them out for now.

SCD should be fit to your gut as long as you are keeping out major no-no's like grains, gluten, sugars and most dairy.

about nut flours: they are advanced food, digested very slowly. I know it's boring but eating lots of protein and low-starch veggies will be the best. When you start adding nut flour and making muffins add about the same amount of shredded veggie like carrot to dilute it. Tastes great but not too heavy.

To keep calories high and weight up add coconut oil wherever possible, into smoothies, veggies, soups.
Posted 6/15/2010 8:37 PM (GMT 0)
great... thanks. that makes sense:) so, if i had homemade applesauce and i'm not seeing problems, keep having it but keep fruits to a minimum... is that the main point?

and how soon would be too soon to try almond nut muffins, b/c i'm dying for something like that!! would it be bad to try this early on? maybe after a month...

also, with honey, is it absorbed before it gets to your colon? do i have to worry about having too much honey?

thanks so much
emma

Post Edited (emma ann) : 6/15/2010 6:59:10 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/16/2010 3:23 AM (GMT 0)
yes, the main idea is to try foods and see if they are OK with your gut. keep sugar including fruit sugar to a minimum, not feeding the bad bacteria.

I think I tried nut flour at one month but it was too soon. I waited and then tried again mixing with shredded carrots a few weeks later with better results. Same thing with nuts. They are harder to digest and get clogged up causing C for me. And are sooo tasty I want to eat too many.

SCD says that honey gets digested higher up in the digestive tract than other sugars. Yes you can eat too much honey just like anything else.
Posted 6/16/2010 6:03 PM (GMT 0)
Emma, try adding mashed avacado and non-peanut nut butters. These should all be pretty easy on the digestion and will help with the weight loss. Olive oil is good, too
Posted 6/16/2010 7:56 PM (GMT 0)
thanks so much, i just bought some almond butter and want so bad to add it, but i was going to wait. if all it does is cause constipation then, i think i could use it, that's not been my issue, ever.

also, does anyone know much about almond milk, it says you are supposed to make your own b/c commercial brands are illegal, but i don't know how to do that...
any advice??

thanks so much!!

emma
Posted 6/17/2010 3:13 AM (GMT 0)
I just saw a recipe for homemade almond milk, maybe on the pecanbread.com website?  I have some storebought almond milk in my pantry and checked the ingredients and it has sugar and I think even corn starch (or brown rice starch? something grain starch) which would definitely make it illegal.  Oh, well!  I would love to try it too.

Here's a recipe from iamglutenfree.com.  It looks pretty easy, I might try it too.

Take out the agave syrup for SCD legal (and I can't remember if dates are okay or not?)

Homemade Vanilla Almond Milk (uncooked)

1 cup raw almonds (with or without skins)
3 cups water
medjool dates or any dates you can find – make sure there are no pits inside the dates
agave syrup to taste
1 teaspoon vanilla extract or the scrapings from one fresh vanilla bean

I’ve read that it is best to soak the almonds overnight, however I always forget, so I just make it with almonds straight from the bag. By the way, the almonds from Trader Joe’s (they cost about $4.69 per 16 ounce bag) appear to be gluten-free. Many of their bagged nuts say that they’re made in a facility that also processes numerous ingredients, including wheat. Not so with the almonds. Of course, it’s always best to check – we have to religiously read labels.

Put the almonds and water in a blender and blend on highest speed. When it appears that the almonds are as finely chopped as they’ll get, turn the blender off. Of course, I would love a Vita-mix blender, but for now I’ve made do with my regular, run of the mill blender.

Strain the almond milk by placing a sprout or nut bag, if you’re lucky enough to have one, over a bowl or measuring cup. Pour the almond milk into the bag. Squeeze the bag to get all of the liquid out of the blended almonds. If you don’t have a sprout or nut bag, another alternative is to place a strainer over the bowl or measuring cup so that it will not tip over. Lay a doubled or tripled piece of cheesecloth over the strainer. Pour the almond milk into the strainer.

Once the almond milk is strained, pour it back into the blender (first you have to thoroughly wash it before reusing for this next step). Add the dates, agave syrup, and vanilla and blend. You will want to taste the milk to see if you want additional dates, agave syrup, or vanilla, per your taste.

Store in the refrigerator. Best to use within the next 2 or 3 days.

Posted 6/17/2010 4:51 PM (GMT 0)
Cool. Thanks for the recipe. Are you supposed to cook it at all? some of the sites call it blanched almond milk. Does that mean you boil it?
Posted 6/18/2010 1:28 PM (GMT 0)
Ok, so I have another scenario I need to ask about.

I'm on day 14 of the diet and haven't had any noticable blood since day 8 until this morning. I was so excited... now i'm comfused. It was just a small amt. of blood, but it is alarming. Two days ago i broke down and had a little almond butter and yesterday I had a little more and made almond, zucchini muffins and only had one really small one. Could this be the cause? Am I supposed to cut it out and see if it is the cause and add it back in later?

I mainly tried these b/c i got the BTVC book from the library and Elaine acted like it was ok to try almond flour in the first couple of weeks, so i thought i'd give it a shot and see if it worked for me.

Also, i was only on the cortenema for two days and at the end of the second day i could start to feel body aches really similar to when I'm on oral prednisone, but the oral usually takes a couple weeks to start the aches. I was very surprised b/c you all said that the enemas don't have the same side effects. I'm in my best friend's wedding in 2 weeks and don't want to have a moon face for it, so i think i might stop the enemas until after the wedding... any advice on these two issues??

I was kinda wondering if the blood could be from stopping the enema... I took it two nights and then didn't last night. I know that the box says if you stop, it could cause sympoms to worsen... i'm not sure.

Thanks so much

Post Edited (emma ann) : 6/18/2010 8:05:01 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 6/18/2010 4:04 PM (GMT 0)
My opinion FWIW is to continue enemas but I personally have never used the cortenemas, just mesalamine (Rowasa brand name but they are also available as generic). My guess is that stopping the enema plus new food caused blood. But hurray for the bleeding stopped on day 8!!
You are/were on your way to healing the ulcers. A positive step forward.

Moonface would come second for me if the enemas were helping but I'm not as young as you and care not what I look like if I feel good (yeah I'm married lol).

Other people will have to answer about what happens when you abruptly stop a cortenema, perhaps ask that question in another thread since those people may not read an SCD thread.

Can you get a mesalamine enema and perhaps alternate with the cortenema if you should be tapering the cortenema? Mesalamine enema is what always stopped my bleeding until SCD and gluten-free came along. I used it sporadically, as needed.
Posted 6/18/2010 4:33 PM (GMT 0)
imagardner

i know, i probably should have stayed on them, but i just lost my moon face a couple months ago in time for this wedding and i don't feel like looking like that again :(

i guess i could call my doc and ask about masalamine enemas.

So, you think even if i don't continue enema, i should stop the almond stuff for a bit and see how i do. do you think that this shows that in the long run, this diet will help me even if there are ups and downs? Did you have ups and downs in your recovery? times where things were going great and then had a little relapse for a bit??

Thanks so much,
Emma
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