Fecal Transplant - I took the plunge! PART IV

Taken antibiotics? Too many times to count. Plus several other procedures arising out of having a major infection. I do wonder if that started me down the fatal spiral, that combined with eating terribly and no exercise for 10 years (I am correcting both).

As for contacting Autralisa, I was curious about that. I want to see if my GI would be game to talk to Borody and see if they might be able to figure out whether they could do something. I am mostly afraid of doing this without doctor supervision, and getting myself in far more hot water.

I'm just posting to I can follow this link. I just emailed my mom asking her for her poop. I'm so curious to see how she'll respond! Yuk yuk. My title of my emal," weirdest request you'll ever be asked in your life time!" I can hear my dad now "Jesus Jenny, Linda, what next" ear wax?

My mom was like....what about consulting a health care professional. Anyone know of one in the United States that will do phone consults for this?

Tankor, thanks for the response. I actually did a CDSA 2.0 analysis in 2008 that showed an extremely low level for several positive species of bacteria, including no growth at all of bifido varieties.

I don't know if this was the type of analysis you are thinking of, but I thought it was pretty thorough. After that analysis I tried to take various pro biotics including VSL#3 thinking this may all be a floral imbalance, but it never really got me anywhere (though I am again attempting to do so with bifido and culturelle together with Florastor). Of course I'd love to solve this by just finding the right combination of probiotic products first, without having to resort to FT, but like you, I admit if I knew this would really right what is wrong, don't get me wrong, would do it in a heartbeat!!!

What is frustrating to me was that the GIs so far have not attempted to isolate my "IBS" further than just deciding that is what I have and just trying to find out what suppresses the symptoms rather than figuring out what the cause is. They speculate and they sometimes just guess, but nobody truly tries to delve further into it. I do believe IBS is too vague a diagnosis and that some people truly have floral imbalances which are the cause or other disturbances to the mucosal barrier, etc. While others truly have the symptoms arising from the brain/gut issues. But this just means that using the phrase "IBS" for all of us may not even quite make sense. I kept telling my docs I have absolutely no pain, just diarrhea, which often is post prandial (but never surprisingly in the evening, just morning and afternoon).

Immodium has been my crutch for two years, but I really want to again try to get away from just a method of suppression. I am amazed at how basic our understanding of the gut is, and that there isn't more being done in terms of research and focus here. Just amazed. Then again, to be fair, there is a fair amount now coming out about gut flora and other ideas, so perhaps there is hope that things may be accelerating.

sunspot,

I also tested zero for bifido
The good thing is that bifido exists mostly in the large intestine near the colon, so its the first place to get implanted
with a fecal transplant. VL3 is argueably the best pro biotic out there. The problem is pro biotics don't implant in the
intestinal walls. I find lots of studies confirming this. By culturing these bacteria in a laboratory, they lose there ablility
to adhere to the intestine and basically just go through your system.. They can help proliferate existing bacteria in your
system, they can also help perform functions required by the bacteria, so they do have a therapeutic effect.

But from my studies, if you have 0 levels of certain bacteria, the only way to recover them is threw a fecal transplant.
My concern is there's a fair number of people who haven't had good results. Some have had unbelievable results.
Hopefully people will report in on this thread with some good news, would make me feel better.

Just something to add.

I came across some research where they tested alot of different probiotics.
From some of the research I've found, apparently probiotics are much more effective
when just taking a single strain rather than taking them with multiple strains.

You & I would probably see some nice benefit if we just took a probiotic with just bifido.
I recall reading that you can get single strain probiotics somewhere, just can't recall exactly
where but I'll look into it

sunspot,

interestingly enough I came across a post of yours on another forum while doing research.
You tested positive for Klebsiella oxytoca? or theres Klebsiella pnemonia ?

I had dysbiotic flora Klebsiella oxytoca 3+

C_G_K, would you not attempt what others here have, and do it yourself? Seems like there are a number of folks here who are self-medicating with the FT regimen and having in some cases very amazing results. Something to consider.

Tankor, yes, I had Klebsiella oxytoca at 4+. But my doc never really stated anything about it, I was more concerned that my bifido was NG, my Lactobacillus species was only 2+. E. Coli was 4+.

So yes, high degree of Kleb oxytoca and low degree of Bifido.

therearemiracles said...


Doctors obtain a stool sample from a healthy relative of the patient, typically a spouse, filter the sample, and infuse it into the C. difficile patient, typically via a nasal tube.

Nasal tube!? Wow, so they put it in your stomach?

So putting it up your butt is not what they do, which would be my only option if I did it myself.

therearemiracles said...
Well that's how they do it for C Diff patients I guess. Is our mix up of bacteria in the gut or colon or both? I can take a whole lot of probiotics but it doesn't help my colon that much.


I was tested too for low bacteria and I was low on lactobacillia, spelling that wrong, but I was low on a strain .



What to do?

I think eating vegetables and fruit fresh out of the garden can replenish some the the natural strains. Eating fruit and vegetables from a commercial farm does not help since they are grown in pretty much sterile conditions. Same with cultured strains grown in the lab, they are not quite the same as the natural strains and tend to pass right on through without adhering.

There is a probiotic called Primal Defense that is basically dirt tablets. I think the strains are from soil, not cultured, but I am not 100% sure of that. That probiotic worked wonders for me for many years.

I used primal defense also. With not much added benefit.

Sunspot, I copy & pasted this from my email directly from the head clinical coordinator at Borody's clinic in Australia.

"I’m sure your treating physician is aware of the treatment for Klebsiella eradication, however we would treat with a combination of Keflex 500mgs & Gentamycin 80mgs twice a day for 14 days. We would wait 4 weeks before repeating the stool culture to prove eradication.
Unfortunately, it is only the antibiotic therapy which will eradicate the bug, not diet."

They say to eliminate this first before doing a fecal transplant. They also say people with + Klebsiella generally show signs of diarrhea, stomach pains.
Your IBS sounds more severe than mine, perhaps its related to the fact that you have more Klebsiella than I do.

sunspot19 said...
C_G_K, obviously a lot of this is all speculation, as I can't really understand why "dirt" bacteria would have any more colonizing power than those cultured.

So you used Primal Defense for a while? What in particular did you use - I think there are many different brands.

Does it still work wonders for you, or have the effects been less helpful recently?

True it is speculation, but then everything surrounding the cause of U.C. is speculation since the cause it unknown.

To me it makes sense. One of the things that has changed in modern times is that most of us no longer eat food fresh from the garden, so we no longer ingest organisms from the soil as we once did (when rates of Crohn's and Colitis were lower than today). I don't see any harm in replacing what used to come from fresh food. That is why I take Primal Defense which is made by Garden of Life brand (no this is not spam!!).

Starting primal defense 4 years ago helped me finally get off steroids after a flare that had landed me in the hospital for 2 weeks. I then went on to have a 3 year remission that was fantastic. I was able to jog, etc, and never worry about bathrooms since I was so regular.

This last flare, which started 6 months ago, has been extremely mild in comparison with a very slow onset, which is unusual for me. In this flare, unlike my 3 previous, the inflammation is limited mostly to the rectum, and I think primal defense is helping it from spreading up. The doc said the rest of my colon looked "pristine".

Speculation? Yup, but that is the name of the game with UC where little is certain.

I hear ya on the use of more drugs.

Initially I had planned on doing a FT without taking any drugs before hand, and just taking
natural klebsiella & candida killers.

But after speaking with Australia, they somehow convinced me to take some drugs. I think I may
do half of what they suggested. I'll take some natural kleb killers for awhile, and then do half of there
recommended antibiotic treatment.

These guys are the world leaders in treating digestive disorders. It's hard for me to just ignore what they say.
I also liked how there protocol includes diet, and they also recommend IBS patients try VL3.

That gives me more faith in them than I usually have in medical doctors. Seeing is how they never mention diet
or natural supplements, they just push drugs in a disgraceful way. To make treatment recommendations for
intestinal disorders and never mention diet or probiotics at all is pathetic. It takes about 3 seconds to google this
stuff and find out diet has an impact of almost every aspect of health.

Sorry just venting a bit, doctors really piss me off to !