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Could the initial mechanism of UC be this simple.

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Ulcerative Colitis
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Posted 3/12/2013 10:44 PM (GMT 0)
I know I have talked about it in the past,basically if the bacteria cannot get past the mucus barrier then no UC.

What causes the mucus barrier to break down,become thinner or lower in viscosity is another story.

If you dont feel like reading the whole thing just read the last paragraph of the discussion.

I believe I have older threads on this same subject,but it is worth a relook.

ALso remember UC starts distally where the mucus barrier is thin.

Old Mike

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0012238

http://www.pnas.org/content/108/suppl.1/4659.full

latest info

http://gut.bmj.com/content/early/2013/02/19/gutjnl-2012-303207.full

 other info

 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3035142/

more on bacterial enzymes

http://www-05.all-portland.net/cs/074/0071/0740071.pdf

many believe antibiotics may have caused their UC,posible mechanism

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3067531/

distal info

http://gut.bmj.com/content/30/12/1660.full.pdf

foods that inhibit beta glucuronidase. Believe we want to increase not inhibit.

glucaric may inhibit more than the other acids dont really know

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/6/1341.full

protease

http://www.microbecolhealthdis.net/index.php/mehd/article/view/7668/9008

aspartic also inhibits

http://www.livestrong.com/article/280069-what-foods-contain-aspartic-acid/

as does malic

http://www.livestrong.com/article/82720-malic-acid-foods/

why we dont want to inhibit, if this is correct.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3332284/

protein fermentation

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0052387

this may be a duplicate,posted too many to be sure

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1856798/

good paper bicarb transport mucus

https://gupea.ub.gu.se/bitstream/2077/28487/1/gupea_2077_28487_1.pdf

more on mucus

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/06/24/1006451107.full.pdf

 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 3/17/2013 6:07:19 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/12/2013 11:10 PM (GMT 0)
Wasn't this what the soy lecithin/phosphotydal choline treatment was supposed to do-repair the mucus barrier that, in UC patients, broke down on a gradient and, as you said was thinnest in the rectum?

It makes sense but I remember a lot of people here tried that treatment and I don't recall much success.
Posted 3/12/2013 11:28 PM (GMT 0)
Yes but that is not the whole problem,the PC is on the surface producing a hydrophobic layer,which
helps protect the actual mucus. If the mucus is degraded by protease either digestive or bacterial,
or possibly thinned by something in the diet,such as food emulsifiers,or protease is not deactivated
by deconjugated bilirubin then the mucus cannot exclude bacteria. Then the goblet cells become depleted of mucus and cannot regenerate mucus fast enough. Once the bacteria penetrate the mucus and get into the actual colon surface tissue,then the immune cascade starts.
Old Mike
Posted 3/12/2013 11:40 PM (GMT 0)
Seems to make sense as most cases of UC start in the distal colon, including mine.

I still suspect that milk fat played a big role in breaking down the mucus barrier in my colon, causing the bacteria to attack.

Of course, there are many other things that would increase gut permeability, with stress being a major component.
Posted 3/13/2013 12:05 AM (GMT 0)
Aither good article, with a full pdf link within:
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ibd.20539/full
Posted 3/13/2013 1:56 AM (GMT 0)
Let's see... It's 9:52 pm now according to the computer. I foresee yet another long night of reading.

This is pretty intriguing.

Although my only comment upon a total 15 second scan is that when I drink a lot of tap water I actually see and feel an improvement in symptoms. To much coffee instead of water and I get worse. Bad habit.

Still intriguing though... hmmm - I better get reading
Posted 3/13/2013 3:28 AM (GMT 0)
Good job Mike,

Neighbor told me this stuff cured her friend, I never followed through on it but after reading what you posted I am pretty sure I will be.

glyconutrientsreference said...

Ulcerative colitis is an inflammatory, often chronic disease of the colon, or large intestine. It affects the mucosa of the colon ie the innermost lining, and is marked by inflammation and ulceration. Ulcerative colitis often begins in the rectum and sigmoid colon and may extend upwards into the entire colon.

Both Ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease are considered autoimmune illnesses and studies indicate they may be caused by a defect in the body's mucosal-lining defensive barrier which consists of glycoproteins called glycosaminoglycans or GAG for short. Wherever the barrier is defective toxins and pathogens can penetrate, causing inflammation, infection and ulceration. The defect and subsequent invasion allow fluid and protein to leak out, disrupting the vascular structure and connective tissue. Chronic inflammation causes scarring and the body's shift into a high-gear immune response - and autoimmune disease.

Rather than trying to halt the inflammatory response, with steroids and other immune suppressants it may be more effective to rebuild the GAG layer. Saccharide (glyconutrient) deficiencies have been found in patients with ulcerative colitis - they are deficient in many of the eight essential glyconutrients. For people with ulcerative colitis, glyconutrients, in Ambrotose, may support the body to repair and rebuild the GAG layer and so prevent the inflammation and ulceration.

www.glyconutrientsreference.com/mannatech/medicalconditions/colitis.html
Posted 3/13/2013 3:47 AM (GMT 0)
This seems counter-intuitive.

Says Bifido-bifidum is 'bad'

In a series of studies Hoskins and colleagues have shown that about 1% of
the normal colonic flora are able to secrete glycosidases that allow these
bacteria to use shed mucus as their sole energy source. They have so far
identified two organisms capable of doing this: Ruminococcus torques and
Bifidobacterium bifidum.

gut.bmj.com/content/30/12/1660.full.pdf

Says Bifido-bifidum is 'good'

Bifidobacterium bifidum is a probiotic, or a beneficial kind of bacteria. Probiotics live inside the body, mainly in the gastrointestinal system. These good bacteria promote healthy digestion, strengthen the immune system, and work to eliminate harmful and unhealthy bacteria from the body. Low levels of probiotics in the intestines can result in many unpleasant symptoms such as abdominal bloating and cramps, yeast infections, and food sensitivities. Bifidobacterium bifidum can be added to the diet through the use of supplements or the consumption of yogurt containing live culture.

www.wisegeek.com/what-is-bifidobacterium-bifidum.htm
Posted 3/13/2013 3:51 AM (GMT 0)
Guess we just need some more information indicating that glyconutrients are indeed deficient in those with UC... Other than the sellers claims.
Posted 3/13/2013 4:45 AM (GMT 0)

freddyj said...
Guess we just need some more information indicating that glyconutrients are indeed deficient in those with UC... Other than the sellers claims.

Apparently 'glyconutrients' isn't even a word. However overlooking that there are a lot of people posting below this article saying it helped. blog.glyconutrientsreference.com/?p=27

What glycoproteins do we consume which do we avoid is what I want to know.

"Although these associations are modest, the data suggest that plant foods, particularly constituents of fruits and fiber-containing foods, may influence human β-glucuronidase activity in a potentially favorable direction."

Interesting sunflower seed is mentioned :

"Seeds and legumes are excellent sources of aspartic acid, according to Diet & Fitness Today. In the seeds category, partially defatted sunflower seed flour and partially defatted cottonseed meal top the list, each providing 5g of aspartic acid per 100g serving. "

Post Edited (aguywithuc) : 3/12/2013 10:53:05 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/13/2013 6:44 AM (GMT 0)
Hmm looks promising. I wonder if its really a blog or a clever advertisement.
Posted 3/13/2013 8:09 AM (GMT 0)

freddyj said...
Hmm looks promising. I wonder if its really a blog or a clever advertisement.

Probably more snake oil although the neighbor who handed me the material said her friends daughter had a miraculous recovery, I dont even remember what her ailment was.

The quotes I posted are back on Mike's track, I want to know what action we can take to protect the inner layer, sounds like DSS can hose it up rapidly as probably certain foods can. First what do I feed my gut to build it up, next what do we avoid.

I have a big bottle of NAG, I have a whole story in my walk in pantry but it is clear as mud how to use the info provided.
Posted 3/13/2013 10:27 AM (GMT 0)
hmm interesting... especially about the mannatech product ambrotose.

Re bifidobacterium bifidum: both that and the acidophilus have made me constipated. And they inflame my body if that makes sense as in my tongue looks red now and also i feel edgy and agitated. And feel blocked up (colon). My accupucturist told me to stop them. i think i will.
Posted 3/13/2013 1:43 PM (GMT 0)
Conquer: You could have some translocation going on/leaky gut someplace even probiotics presented to the immune system in the wrong manner will set if off.

I have posted in the not too distant past where a rare few people get very sick from probiotic infection.

Here is a link.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15629999

If the  β-glucuronidase theroy is correct,we do not want to inhibit it with aspartic acid,glucarates,malic acid.

From my old thread.

The basis of this theory is the reduction of gut bacateria activity due to saccharin, or other chemicals that we ingest. Basically it is saying that there is not enough bacterial B-glucorunidase to deconjugate bilirbuin,if the bilirbuin is not degonjuagated then the digestive proetases will not be deactived

Then the mucus barrier is destroyed,then the bacteria get to the mucosa, then the immune cascade starts.

Forget the saccharin at least for now.

I have started looking for β-glucuronidase inhibitors besides saccharin.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2346674

protease small intestine bacteria

http://www.microbecolhealthdis.net/index.php/mehd/article/view/7668/9008

http://www.livestrong.com/article/330279-foods-high-in-glucaric-acid/

http://www.livestrong.com/article/30822-foods-provide-calcium-dglucarate/

There is also a glucose connection to UC.

http://www.ftb.com.hr/44/44-185.pdf

More.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/6/1341.full

This one found no difference in plasm glucorindase after an intervention diet in humans. But that is not our gut bacteria.

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/17/7/1808.full

This is a good rundown,glucaric acid helps to detoxify.

http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/7/4/336.pdf

I have also found that aspartic acid from casein also inhibits b-glucuronidase activity and it will make it to the colon.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/117/6/2317.1.full.pdf

Then we have aspartame.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame

Something on milk.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/22/2/214.full.pdf

Then again everything else I read says high glucurunidase activity is bad.

3/13/13 :I now believe the balance is somehow out of whack.

Could it be that a high meat,white rice,and veggies if any with low glucaric acid content,

is the way to go. Just beginning to search out glucaric acid content of foods.

Seems this might be why a Paleo diet works in some people, and possibly if it

was more restrictive on certain veggies it would work better,also no dairy,or of course artifical sweeteners.

This is pointing more towards why the Paleo diet is possibly the best,as long as veggies and fruits high in glucaric acid

are excluded.

Also could be the reason vegetarians get UC, and for countries that are vegetarian

it might depend on which vegetables are eaten.

I also suspect that back in 1900 before a lot of UC, the average american did not

have access to all the veggies we have today,have to check into that. Have not looked into grains/cows milk as of yet.

Inhibiting the β-glucuronidase activity of our colon bacteria might not

be a good idea. Whey protein contains a large amount of aspartic acid,looks like that has to go off my list also.

I was not any kind of Paleo advocate prior to the last few weeks but this all seems to tie together,

towards a Paleo type diet,with the exception of too much red meat.

feeding study,too bad they measured serum acitivity.

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/17/7/1808.full

Old Mike

 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 3/17/2013 6:09:06 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/13/2013 2:25 PM (GMT 0)
Paleo diet etc always improves my status. Last year I was not an oak and ate anything I wanted I even started drinking that poison again......soon after my trouble began and the flare that never ended came back to life after xmas.

I rarely consume any shakes now but Pure Green Protein is excellent.

Whey protein is sketchy and I try to just eat protein from steak,chicken, eggs.

I believe I can cut out all this processed weigthlifter garbage and 'comfort' treat/cheat foods and just eat salads steak, chicken, egg and be normal. I have noticed on stays away from my kitchen while travelling I go normal.

Before I join the American Medical Complex with IMURAN I need to take a mental journey and become 100% disciplined again and learn once and for all. Is this all self-inflicted ?????

Hardest part will be zero stimulants but it has to be at the core of the program.
Posted 3/13/2013 2:50 PM (GMT 0)
If you really want the straight poop,you will have to read this thread on another forum.
You will see lots of questions and answers from the author of the B-glucorunidase paper.
I communicate with Xiaofa Qin quite often. I believe it is just not saccharin and other artifical sweeteners,but a host

of other chemicals,and veggies/fruit in the modern diet. By modern I mean veggies/fruits introduced since late 19th century.
http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=36726

What do we know that helps some people.

FT-Repopulates gut bacteria

Probiotics-Repopulate

SCD-Removes many processed foods

Paleo-If strict removes just about all processed foods,dairy possibly many veggies and fruits.

GAPS-Same

Spinach/sunflower seed,might be somewhat of a contradiction.

Alkaline diet-Reduces net acid load,may increase bicarbonate into the colon which then would

increase pH,which then up regulates b glucorunidase.

Old Mike

 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 3/13/2013 8:54:24 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/13/2013 3:25 PM (GMT 0)

Old Mike said...
If you really want the straight poop,you will have to read this thread on another forum.
You will see lots of questions and answers from the author of the B-glucorunidase paper.
I communicate with Xiaofa Qin quite often. I believe it is just not saccharin and other artifical sweeteners,but a hostof other chemicals,and veggies/fruit in the modern diet. By modern I mean veggies/fruits introduced since late 19th century.
http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=36726

What do we know that helps some people.
FT-Repopulates gut bacteria
Probiotics-Repopulate
SCD-Removes many processed foods
Paleo-If strict removes just about all processed foods,dairy possibly many veggies and fruits.
GAPS-Same
Spinach/sunflower seed,might be somewhat of a contradiction.
Alkaline diet-Reduces net acid load,may increase bicarbonate into the colon which then would
increase pH,which then up regulates b glucorunidase.

Old Mike

Thanks Mike, all company meeting downtown, meet with surgeon in Boulder tomorrow but will revisit this come the weekend.
Posted 3/13/2013 5:43 PM (GMT 0)
Ah.. how to restore that gut mucosa and stop crapping it out. Keep on it fellas.
Posted 3/13/2013 6:39 PM (GMT 0)
This is starting to spread far and wide. Need a new post,sorry.

OM

dietary and demographic

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2858007/

gama tocopherol

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/6/714.long

seems that alpha tocoperol inhibits gama,gama also inhibits NO ROS.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/oct2002_report_gamma_01.html

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 3/13/2013 1:15:28 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/13/2013 6:56 PM (GMT 0)
Ive never really eaten artificial sweeteners.. Stress, diet, epigenetics. Who really cares though, the point it to recover mucous, not fret over why its got holes so much. Not what happened, but whats *going* to happen....
Posted 3/13/2013 7:25 PM (GMT 0)
Freddy:
I have never really eaten them either,but check your toothpaste for saccharin,or others.
How are we supposed to know how to recover mucus,unless we know what caused depletion in the first place. You could try to recover,but still be eating something that counter acts the mucus recovery.

Whey is great for feeding goblet cells,but not sure about its effect on glucoronidase yet.

whey may be ok

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9285376

it is milk and cheese that might be a problem.

lacto GG reduces glucoronidase,or is it broken down whey,dont know of course

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8283290

as you can see here gut/yogurt bacteria will hydrolyze casein and inhibit.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22365194

reuteri,tried in the past but may revisit

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0046399

insulin,see how complex this gets Freddy,we need good people here to sift through all this crap besides me,I can miss stuff,make incorrect conclusions,not have all/enough info,be totally wrong,ect.

I am just an old fart trying to fix myself,we need real biochemical people.

http://www.cell.com/cell-host-microbe/abstract/S1931-3128(12)00031-5?switch=standard

not so simple

http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/26839/InTech-Intestinal_barrier_dysfunction_the_primary_driver_of_ibd_.pdf



All of this glucoronidase info is a theory,but we do know that our gut bacteria are not right,we do know that proteases dissolves mucus,we do know that bacteria should not get past the mucus but it does for some reason.


Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 3/13/2013 4:37:19 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/13/2013 8:12 PM (GMT 0)
Well it could be artificial sweeteners, it could be stress (in my case, growing up in a stressful household did it, I have no doubt), but whatever it is seems to cause weakness in the mucosa, then it all goes from there. The question is what to do about it. How do we bolster the restoration process, along with using proper, better foods, anti-inflammatories, etc?

Im looking into glycoproteins, and there may be something to them, who knows. Apparently many of the medicinal mushrooms have them, Reishi, Lingchi, Cordyceps, crapake, Oyster, etc. I am a believer in these mushrooms, actually, and at one point in life, years ago, used to take the extracts regularly. Perhaps its worth a revisit.
Posted 3/13/2013 8:20 PM (GMT 0)
Anyone see this on mannatech?

blog.glyconutrientsreference.com/?p=13
Posted 3/13/2013 9:01 PM (GMT 0)
This is interesting stuff- too late for me I fear but interesting. @Freddyj I love your signature, lol.
Posted 3/13/2013 9:21 PM (GMT 0)
Why too late for you?
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