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Non-human Molecule Is Absorbed by Eating Red Meat

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Ulcerative Colitis
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Posted 4/13/2013 6:17 PM (GMT 0)
Wow how did I miss this all these years. Mild inflammatory but builds up in tissue.

Who knows. Just starting to look into this,might be nothing or not much info.

Old Mike

http://www.pnas.org/content/100/21/12045.full.pdf

here is a list of how much in some foods

http://health.ucsd.edu/news/2003/09_29_varki.html

some video links

http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/neu5gc/

not a lot to go on that is new still looking

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23520510

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18669916

might this also apply to UC

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23466062

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19828701

some get better going off of dairy,now to wonder how about dairy and red meat.

incorporates into the small intestine wall then into circulation then organs

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22692204

 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 4/13/2013 2:32:14 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/13/2013 7:02 PM (GMT 0)
This is all way over my head.
Posted 4/13/2013 7:10 PM (GMT 0)
Basically it is a sugar that humans do not make,but is found in large amounts in red meat/dairy,I love goat cheese. Anyway some of it stays around in the body after we eat meat,the body thinks it is foreign
and makes antibodies to it. I have no clue if it might cause IBD,no info.
But from many studies they link meat/red meat and dairy to UC.
Perhaps some combination of leaky gut,do to say gluten allows this stuff in,or it somehow binds to
colon cells,then the body attacks. Then again my son with the pouch and rectal cuff eats tons of beef and pork

and he is doing fine,then again he was doing ok,but then he had all his mercury fillings removed and is real good.
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 4/13/2013 2:05:23 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/13/2013 7:53 PM (GMT 0)
Interesting, thanks for the thought process :)

I eat a lot of dairy but not much red meat at all. I know I grew up on low quality meat and dairy though.
Posted 4/13/2013 8:27 PM (GMT 0)
I think I know how I got UC now.

Sugar addict + low fiber + high protein.

High protein thins the mucosal lining. Bingo recipe for disaster. Always trying to bulk up without a complete diet did me in. Cipro etc was not helpful either.

Guess what counteracts the damage from a high protein and red meat diet ? I bet you know the answer :)

"thinning of the colonic mucus layer in rats fed higher dietary protein as casein or red meat. DNA damage was reduced and the mucus barrier thickened in a logarithmic dose-dependent manner by HAMS. "

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17218781
Posted 4/13/2013 9:08 PM (GMT 0)
Yea I guessed,I will also bet you cooked your meat.
Good theory, seems to fit some of the studies,but not all.
How do we fix it,butyrate enemas dont work as good as they had hoped,probably only one part of the
story. Some people who have never eaten meat get uc,really need to find this out though.
Little kids get uc,but they can get antibodies from mother,and also the neu5gc.
Question now becomes did mother eat meat.
Old Mike
Posted 4/13/2013 9:44 PM (GMT 0)
Haven't even red meat in 5-6 years. I was a vegetarian when I was dxed.

But when I grew up I didn't have quality meat and dairy, which can explain things, on top of antibiotics.

Thanks Mike.
Posted 4/13/2013 10:50 PM (GMT 0)
I was a vegetarian when dx'ed too.
killcolitis was a vegetarian when she had her daughter, also a vegetarian from birth.
many here have been vegetarian and gotten UC.
Doubt it's that easy a connection.

I personally think the antibiotic link is a big one that connects to other things.

But...many of the human cultures that have low UC incidence are low meat eaters, at least red meat.
Posted 4/13/2013 11:12 PM (GMT 0)
Yup, my daughter an organic fruit and veg, whole grain reared vegetarian from birth who does well with red meat actually. ?
Posted 4/14/2013 12:25 AM (GMT 0)
It is just another possible piece of the puzzle,was anyone lacto-ovo.
Ate cheese. Just trying to find out these things. The above info on the neu5gc
is quite interesting. I know many were vegetarians which is a puzzle as far as diet goes.

At this point feel like it is necessary to turn over every rock,and this is a strange one.
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 4/13/2013 6:40:06 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/14/2013 4:24 AM (GMT 0)
I did eat cheese at the beginning, but I cut everything that came from animals out. Long before diagnosis. But, I did have a high dose of antibiotics right before symptoms.
Posted 4/14/2013 12:30 PM (GMT 0)

aguywithuc said...
I think I know how I got UC now.

Sugar addict + low fiber + high protein.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17218781

Thank you! This is EXACTLY how I got UC. I fell for the high protein low carb fad and within a year my rectum was destroyed. My GI said it had nothing to do with UC, so the naive me continued. And after 6 months my sigmoid too got involved and I was hospitalized. From then on I have learnt to do my own research and listen to my body when it comes to diet and just ignore the GI's "diet has nothing to do with it" cliche.

Of many observations, one of the things my biopsy said was that I had significant mucodepletion in the affected region. Are there treatments options that focus on rebuilding the mucosa in a friable affected region?

EDITED:

We should really be not looking this as vegetarian vs meat thing. You can be a veg and have an unbalanced diet and be unhealthy. Just becoming a veg is not going to solve problems that one experienced when eating say dairy, red meat or whatever that was being toxic to the body.

Post Edited (BadColon) : 4/14/2013 8:14:07 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/14/2013 1:27 PM (GMT 0)
Many things point to excess protein fermentation in the gut with the associated protease and changes to a protolytic bacteria type. I have to suspect that both western meat eaters and vegetarians eat too much protein and not enough starch,through in cooking methods,antibiotics,chlorinated water, excess sugar who know what else. I have to look more into glycemic index,insulin. What keeps driving me in this direction is that UC starts distally,protein fermentation is distal after,carbs are depelted in the proximal colon. What drives more protein to excape digestiion in the small intestine,is cooking methods/high heat.
Old Mike
Posted 4/14/2013 2:12 PM (GMT 0)
Mike, your observation on excess protein is spot on. Vegetarians too can ingest excessive protein!

I had just become a vegetarian and was heavily loading on dairy, nuts, lentils and beans for protein. Not to mention I had added whey powder "to fulfill protein requirements" as per suggestion of nutritional experts. All this added to me consuming more protein than my body required making my gut acidic and toxic.

I have noticed that for me a diet consisting of veggie, fruits, rice, gluten free grains and lentils in moderate amount has helped me. My latest colonoscopy report said I had no inflammation but still significant friability in the rectum and still significant mucodeplition in sigmoid and rectum. Hopefully with inflammation gone, the colon and rectum will get a chance to heal.
Posted 4/14/2013 3:59 PM (GMT 0)

Old Mike said...
Many things point to excess protein fermentation in the gut with the associated protease and changes to a protolytic bacteria type. I have to suspect that both western meat eaters and vegetarians eat too much protein and not enough starch,through in cooking methods,antibiotics,chlorinated water, excess sugar who know what else. I have to look more into glycemic index,insulin. What keeps driving me in this direction is that UC starts distally,protein fermentation is distal after,carbs are depelted in the proximal colon. What drives more protein to excape digestiion in the small intestine,is cooking methods/high heat.
Old Mike

I think there are many entry points or 'pathways' into UC. A doctor once said its just a catchall bucket, a term to describe chaos in the colon for a collection of processes all ending up at this endpoint they dont know how to handle. High protein meat and whey being only one pathway into hell.

As for butyrate that is the signature of RS diet, even more so than psyllium seed powder which I was pimping here years ago RS diet done correctly creates 10x as much butyrate. There are a list of other benefits but this is the primary benefit.
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