My latest UC theory-Call it part X

Hopefully I will get it close someday.
Based on Dysbiosis in inflammatory bowel diseases: the oxygen hypothesis.
The key point I believe is that facultative anaerobes should not be present in any kind of high amounts.
Seems like this is tying together.

Inflammation, generates more oxygen in the colon iNOS/possible excess nitrates in diet/ROS/blood, all add to excess oxygen , or oxygen radicals. Obligate anaerobes/bacteriodes die, trpsin/protease is not deactivated,facultative anaerobes grow and invade,more inflammation,tissue destruction. Not necessarily in this exact order.

Interestingly enough bacteriodes are the only bacteria known to deactivate trypsin, a serine protease.
If too much protease is present say in the colon/rectum we start to digest ourselves.

Possible trigger events.
Antibiotics
excess nitrate in diet
infection
pesticides

Believe need a multipronged approach.
Low nitrate/nitrite diet. May need to go totally organic,and stop certain veggies.
Possible low arginine diet/reduced arginine.
Manganese
Perhaps DMSO or other oxygen scavenger that works in the colon.
Might even need pred to first stop the inflammation, as much as possible.
Certain probiotics may help,don't know which ones.
Probably much more one can do,need to put more thought into it.

This might be why they can't find a specific IBD pathogen,and why it is idiopathic.
Its our own bacteria.

Please read all this info so you can understand what is going on.
Old Mike
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23677008

inflammation probably causing the problem
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23478337
levels in ibd
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7481547

host derived nitrate.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23393266

well what do you know,brings us full circle back to inos.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130207172102.htm

inhibitors
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pHtWUa6ZCuQJ:www.mdpi.com/1420-3049/17/7/8118/pdf+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

arginase
https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=2607313
more
http://www.jimmunol.org/content/173/3/2109.full.pdf
You would want to be Manganese sufficient.

more bacteria are NO generators
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2036.2008.03612.x/full

counter point
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ibd.3780050115/pdf

NO from dysbiotic respiration of nitrate
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2036.2008.03612.x/pdf

Nitrates in diet
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/90/1/1.full.pdf
http://www.nutritionj.com/content/8/1/16
http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecfa/jecmono/v50je07.htm

Moving on to nitrates and nitrite my old thread,more info.
https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=2503059

Oxygen scavengers
DMSO
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8493453
and UC dmso
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1350610
free radicals old stuff,takes some time to load
http://gut.bmj.com/content/34/7/865.full.pdf

trypsin and bacteria
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23840402
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21073731
I am always harping on protease.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trypsin

Something might be going on with certain probiotics
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0891584906004229

some NO chemistry
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1782592/

inos mucus
not sure what this might mean, brand new info
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23977158

another on dysbiosis
http://archive.ispub.com/journal/the-internet-journal-of-gastroenterology/volume-9-number-1/humoral-immune-response-and-luminal-microorganisms-in-patients-with-indeterminate-colitis.html#sthash.uC9lL8Q3.dpbs

selenium
http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/BF02034441.pdf
http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/bchm.2003.384.issue-4/bc.2003.067/bc.2003.067.xml
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3277928/

Se with milk thistle and vitamin E .For reference

Larry Smarr video on gut bugs
http://lsmarr.calit2.net/multimedia?vid=2EMzInPwDDQ

AHR real important stuff-thread
https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=2818976&g=2818976#m2818976

have to look at this one carefully
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23093385

mucosa associated ecoli counts and
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23989750

NO and diet
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9171946
http://www.pnas.org/content/107/41/17716.abstract
tryptophan not sure what is going on here have to read
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23794341

interesting no article,believe his anti-inflammatory diet is full of crap but rest is ok
http://thyroidbook.com/blog/nitric-oxide-modulation-for-autoimmune-disease/

to lower NO might need to do the following,perhaps impossible diet
low nitrate/nitrate=organic veggies might be enough not sure,low spinach/celery
low citrulline=no watermelon at least it may also be in other veggies
low arginine and orthinine=low protein
Such a diet might be dangerous, really have to look into what can be eaten.

veggie diet interesting,just a normal veggie diet
http://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/171451

NO and Sulfide
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2036.2008.03612.x/full

more nitrate
http://hes.wfu.edu/assets/miller/Miller%20Nitrate%20Nitrite%20Kinetics%20NUTRITION%20RESEARCH%202012.pdf

arginine no mild colitis experiment
http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00365520510023152?journalCode=gas
more
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1728426/pdf/v049p00387.pdf

crohns gut bug types
http://www.obgynnews.com/news/top-news/single-article/study-identifies-distinct-microbiome-in-crohns-intestinal-submucosa/7163c64f0017bb0a13ca53b49a3d3867.html




spices and NO
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17074427

bile acids

http://gut.bmj.com/content/early/2012/09/18/gutjnl-2012-302578.abstract
http://gut.bmj.com/content/early/2012/11/11/gutjnl-2012-303867.short?rss=1

apple pectin
http://aem.asm.org/content/78/2/420.long

redox shuttle flavins need B2 and thiols for it to grow in oxygen
http://www.readcube.com/articles/10.1038/ismej.2012.5?locale=en

crohns this bacteria is antiinflammatory
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18936492

video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAzVyOq_ZBQ

Suppose you feed the bacteria with too much dietary nitrate,from certain veggies.
Organic may still be too high in nitrate for some people,really don't know.
Or we have some form of arginase defect,or not enough manganese in diet.
Lots of possibles,and I am sure many I don't know about,some food antigen,or xenobiotic.

Stress is a possible,will try and look into that with respect to gut inflammation,or even bacteria.
Regardless of the trigger,at least for now,it seems that the bacteria types and ratios are driving
the disease.

I can tell you one thing for sure if I take arginine supplements, I get worse.
Old Mike

http://gut.bmj.com/content/48/5/630.full

many may have some form of kidney disease and not know it

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23010760

there could be a huge amount of triggers, pollution,leaky gut.

Finding a trigger for everyone may prove quite difficult.

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 8/26/2013 7:44:42 PM (GMT-6)

So to reiterate on the first 4 links:
-Our own good bacteria is fed by oxygen in the colon.
-Good bacteria is decreased/depleted when a major life event happens to the colon like a pregnancy, major illness, ingesting antibiotics, or consuming foreign foods all allows new bacteria (bad) to grow we are not accustomed too.
-The new harmful bacteria emerges, multiplies quickly, and due to Nitric oxide (laughing gas?) already in the colon in lesser amounts (?) the decrease in oxygen from new bacteria allow the Nitric Oxide to produce E coli (?) in high amounts and the bad bacteria LOVE to feed on, quickly multiplying out of control.

-Even if we eliminate much of the bad bacteria it won't help long since we need longer time to reproduce the good bacteria and it grows at a much slower rate than the bad? IE we need lots of fermented foods/probiotics?

I'm trying to put this into layman's terms so I can wrap my head around this - Does this seem anything like what you got out of the first part of this too?

THANKS for digging up all these articles!

Long term antibiotic use for acne, then stopped, and 3 months later wham...full blown UC. Perhaps coincidence? Never c-diff or infectious.
Once that monster is out of the cage...

Makes PERFECT sense. I have been thinking on the same line but my theory is not really that defined. I am thinking more in terms of inflammatory cytokines, autism, leaky gut and messed up microbial flora.

Thanks for digging this up. You made my life little easy.

I think you'd be very hard pressed to find a single person that didn't take a course of antibiotics for something within say 1 year of developing UC/Crohn's... If there is anyone I'd be really curious to know.

I have always been health conscious and avoided antibiotics. I cannot ever remember taking any antibiotics except in childhood when a doctor gave me penicillin for something.

Old Mike said...
The normal colon contains very little oxygen,and or free radical oxygen/nitrogen products that are not quenched fast. Once some trigger happens,these nitric oxide radicals/ROS increase,this increase kills off good bacteria,these are our obligate anaerobes.

Flagyl is an antibiotic and the one med that jump-started me out of my last flare and into remission. Flagyl is one of those antibiotics that specifically targets anaerobic bacteria.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metronidazole
Metronidazole (INN) /mɛtrəˈnaɪdəzoʊl/ (Flagyl, and others) is a nitroimidazole antibiotic medication used particularly for anaerobic bacteria and protozoa. Metronidazole is an antibiotic, amebicide, and antiprotozoal. It is the drug of choice for first episodes of mild-to-moderate Clostridium difficile infection.

My daughter was on many antibiotics for sinus infections from the time she was little. ..also ate processed foods often stopping at a chain restaurant after team sports..finally had sinus surgery at 19 ...had antibiotics and a round of steroids to recover ...and a few months later uc began..


Thank you for the research...

Mark: We don't know for sure how much antibiotics might be in say meat.
Need to look into that.
At this point the trigger might be anything.
My son was on isotretinoin cream and tetracycline, he started to get sulfur farts,that could
clear a room,then bam UC. NO alone does not inhibit butyrate,but the combo of NO and sulfur oxides,hydrogen sulfide does,then colon cells die.

well it looks like they withdraw antibiotics prior to slaughter so they are

at least out of the meat,the other issue of course is resistance.

http://www.porknetwork.com/pork-news/Should-consumers-insist-on-antibiotic-free-beef-220448391.html

then again we now have triclosan everywhere.

then again what caused the increase in IBD starting back in the 1920's,chlorinated water,canning,refrigeration.

Since something so simple as FT puts some into remission,why.

Resetting the ratios of bacteria,fixing the dysbiosis along with perhaps killing off a pathogen.
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 8/27/2013 7:49:59 AM (GMT-6)

Old Mike said...
Mark: We don't know for sure how much antibiotics might be in say meat.

Aren't chickens fed antibiotics mixed in with their feed? I don't think they taper that off before slaughter.

Here are a few more thoughts on what might really be going on.

Old Mike

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ibd.20474/full

this is interesting and here is the problem with fixing the bacteria without FT.

http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Probiotics_-_we_should_all_be_taking_these_all_the_time_and_double_the_dose_following_antibiotics_and_gastroenteritis

I would hope that all of our good bacteroides are still alive but at reduced levels,and that somehow

they can be regrown. 

somewhat better article

http://www.drpompa.com/Health-Tips/probiotics-digestive-problems-digestive-disease.html

Short of FT,what else might have a chance of repopulating the gut.

in the past I used to eat some dirt but was afraid of getting some pathogen from say rabbit poo,but perhaps

if you dig down you might be ok. You don't actually have to swallow the dirt,just hold it in your mouth and swallow the saliva.

Another way is perhaps with fermented cabbage,but a slightly different take.

You would have to have a fermentation lock,like they use to make wine to exclude oxygen,then some type of straw arrangement that is also sealed,once you get lots of bacteria going,suck out all the juice.

I suspect you can only due this once,since air would have to be let in to get the juice out of the straw,unless of course you use nitrogen to pressurize the container while drinking.

Then again you might just be able to drink the juice real fast without exposing it to too much oxygen.

There has got to be a way around this,hopefully by reducing iNOS and ROS the obligate anaerobes will grow better.

Like this,example 3 looks good or the pickle it site.

You do not want to use a sealed jar,too much chance of explosion.

http://gnowfglins.com/2011/08/23/lacto-fermentation-vessels/#

We all might want to start to look into real lacto fermented foods. Lots of info on the internet.

It might be possible that with say a real pickle that the bacteria are in the pickle and if so there is also

no oxygen. Not really sure if the  bacteria are inside or only on the surface.

http://www.foodrenegade.com/3-biggest-fermenting-mistakes-youre-already-making/

Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 8/27/2013 10:29:11 AM (GMT-6)

Levi: I was waiting for your input.
Yesterday I started with divided doses of DMSO, total of 1ml about a gram,but I decided
to drink it,will increase to 2 grams starting today.
I dilute it in water,figure what the hell, I like the theory and am going to give it the best
chance of working.

Does not make me feel sick,and I don't seem to smell from it.

The ultra pure stuff you can get today is much much better than years ago,when my wife

almost kicked me out of the house,with the sulfur stench.
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 8/27/2013 9:19:53 AM (GMT-6)

I am sort of more interested in its oxygen scavenging properties.
Right now only taking milk thistle,to inhibit iNOS.
Old Mike

If you want to get started fast you can buy raw pickled stuff.

Might be worth a shot, I can only get the raw slaw real locally right now.

Old Mike

http://www.baofoodanddrink.com/

http://www.realpickles.com/index.html