My latest UC theory-Call it part X

Mark,that is what I get out of it,but perhaps immune system in the mouth is also deranged due to gut derangement.

Here is some stuff from my January thread on mouth bacteria and UC.

Old Mike

http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/120326/srep00332/full/srep00332.html

supplement

http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/120326/srep00332/extref/srep00332-s1.pdf

early 20th century decay and brushing

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448323/

IFN gamma,trying to look at up or down regulation,if you down regulate bacteria might get out of control.

So complicated.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1942055/

Another dental IBD study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23060013

mimics

if mouth bacteria can mimic fibrogen,makes me wonder what other tissue types they can mimic.

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/03/26/bacteria-from-mouth-can-lead-to-heart-inflammation-study

colon cancer and mouth bacteria

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20110918000752data_trunc_sys.shtml

 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 9/11/2013 4:46:47 PM (GMT-6)

This thread is great, thanks for finding all of this information! I have quite a bit of reading to keep up.

Perhaps a clue as to why vegetarians might get UC.

Old Mike

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22182464

uc

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22092917

real good article on what happened to our food

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28nutritionism.t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 9/12/2013 8:48:17 AM (GMT-6)

Old Mike...I appreciate looking through your research.

Out of curiosity....what field do you work in?

Hey OM - Now this is really darn interesting.

Remember talking about nanoparticles and how they citrillunated proteins? So they change or alter one of the molecules and the body tags this new protein as foreign, and when cells in the body uptake this protein the body then attacks the cell that incorporated this... Researches felt this was the actual pathway to autoimmune disease in arthritis... Some argued that it was quite the bold claim... And others argued it was inflammation dependent.

Anyway - He we go with oral bacteria... read this article and what do they do??? they citrillunate protein - just like the nanopartciles.

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130912203327.htm

Post Edited (Canada Mark) : 9/13/2013 9:58:32 AM (GMT-6)

Curiouser and curiouser. I have PD but have been taking care of my gums very well for years.
Floss,water pic and dental cleaning every 4 months.
Don't believe I had any gum problem when I was 32.
I doubt my son had gum problems at 21,and children with IBD may not have gum
problems.
But then again,who knows how much it takes to cause a problem.
I really believe that gut bacterial dysbiosis is the key,somehow fixing it is the problem.
Excess NO generation has to be quenched/stopped.
OM

spices,cloves, cinnamon eggplant rosemary fennel basil oregano

might be a good idea to get these into the diet

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17074427

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16506819

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13678266

cinnamon and uc

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21451725

http://link.springer.com/article/10.2478%2Fs11756-013-0231-1#page-1

might have to scratch the fennel seems to be loaded with nitrate

and will release NO in the mouth,dam you really have to watch what you are doing

http://examine.com/supplements/Fennel+Essential+Oil/

cinnamon there are a few reports on the net like this for UC

I have tried it in the past, no effect but might revisit,you might have to watch to make sure

you are buying real cinnamon c verum I guess, don't know which kind is the best

I know real cinnamon bark is flaky and thin not the real heavy hard stuff they pass off.

some random finds

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/opinions/7552/

http://www.ibdsupport.org/forums/topic/83352-cinnamon-and-uc/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saigon_Cinnamon

true cinnamon differences

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=newtip&dbid=31

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 9/13/2013 2:25:19 PM (GMT-6)

You might want to watch this video,easier to listen and then to look at the slides in the provided link

Old Mike

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAzVyOq_ZBQ

Only some strains grow on inulin and Fos,but just about all grow on apple pectin but not citrus.
Also for these to survive on the mucosa the need vitamin B2 riboflavin and some form of thiol.
Glutathione depletion in IBD is a problem,supplements don't really work,need food high is
cysteine and or methionine to boost glutathione.
This is where the high oxygen concentration is from ROS/NO/blood.
These bacteria also are anti inflammatory.
Loosing these from the mucosa may really be a key to IBD.

Also uc is associated with a bloom in SRB's,perhaps these are using up the thiols.
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 9/14/2013 7:15:48 PM (GMT-6)

Another way:

The Pursue of Manipulate The Gut Microbiota
The increasingly serious chronic health issues, ranging from obesity and diabetes to bowel disease and RA, are being demonstrated to be linked with perturbations in gut flora. Hence, it is feasible to treat these complex diseases through adjusting the gut microbiome. Modern medicine is struggling to seek methods of treating these multi-component diseases. The ancient medical philosophies and practices of Asia – particularly those of traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) – can offer an alternative approach. TCM’s reliance on complex mixtures of compounds and its philosophy – complete system needs to be balanced – of treating the human body, match up well with the synergistic properties of the gut microbiome (Crow, 2011). In addition, most herbal medicines are orally administered, which will result in the unavoidable exposure of these medicines to the microorganisms in the gut. During this process, some of them are selectively metabolized into active or absorbable components by enzymes derived from intestinal microbiota. Then the therapeutic effects can be achieved.

The Chinese microbiologist Zhao (2012) adopted a regimen involving Chinese yam and bitter melon – fermented prebiotic foods – that are believed to change the growth of bacteria in the digestive system. When he adopted the regimen by combing these prebiotics with diet composed of whole grains, he lost 20 kg in 2 years. Furthermore, his blood pressure, heart rate, and cholesterol level came down as well. The content of Faecalibacterium prausnitzii, a bacterium with anti-inflammatory properties, increased from an undetectable level to 14.5 percentage. of his total gut bacteria. The animal experiments showed that when rats were given a high fat diet (HFD) together with berberine, the major pharmacological component of the Chinese herb Coptis chinensis or Huanglian, they did not develop obesity or insulin resistance. What is more, the populations of known pathogens decreased while those of known beneficial bacteria increased in the gut. Other studies in mice also showed that the change from a low fat, plant polysaccharide diet to a western diet high in sugar, and fat would rapidly and profoundly reconfigure the composition of microbes in the gut. The gut microbiota in response to HFD feeding may allow the host to harvest more energy from food (Ley et al., 2005; Ley et al., 2006; Sanderson et al., 2006).

Source www.frontiersin.org/Cellular_and_Infection_Microbiology/10.3389/fcimb.2012.00123/full

Yep,yep read all that,feel that we are getting close to solving this. If the wrong bile salts are
killing it,that might be tuff solve,especially for me I have no gall bladder for the past
15 years,so constant dumping of bile by the liver,into my gut. It is also nice to know that
after gall bladder removal there is a higher chance of colon cancer,due to all the bile being dumped. But if it is the type of bile then that can be manipulated. Such as lowering fat in the diet or certain types of fat,or we are also missing certain bacteria that change the bile in the gut.

I could post a zillion studies,but you get the idea.
Old Mike

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24030595

of course it has to be super complex which makes it more difficult for us to figure out

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23851335

this gives me another bad thought,just suppose all this bacterial sequencing is well wrong,

in that much of it is done on westerners, and just about all westerners have out of whack

bacterial profiles,so there are getting the wrong picture of what a healthy microbiome should

look like.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23719549

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22369744

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 9/15/2013 4:24:28 AM (GMT-6)

Hi Gary: I will date myself,that is the $64,000 question.

Genes ,epigenetics?

Perhaps changing gut bacteria populations is one thing,mass extinction of gut populations/strains is perhaps

a whole different ball game.

There is no question in my mind that we are dysbiotic compared to what is believed to be a normal

western microbiome.

Again how can something as simple as FT put some into remission,then again not others.

Are we dealing with more than one disease state,or where it does not work the donor is also dysbiotic.

Is it killing of some pathogen,is it repopulation with certain bacteria which might be anti inflammatory,

or have actions on bile acids,or deactivate protease.

Is it the washout with or without antibiotics, although all who use FT are not washed out,or a 100

other reasons.

If I only had the answer,I might be cured.

Old Mike

This might also be what is going on,will also post a new thread on this,so it is not missed.

http://gut.bmj.com/content/early/2013/09/11/gutjnl-2013-305589.extract

http://gut.bmj.com/content/early/2013/07/29/gutjnl-2013-304909.abstract

 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 9/15/2013 8:42:53 AM (GMT-6)