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[off topic] Are you for/against vaccinations?

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Posted 11/13/2013 1:26 AM (GMT 0)
What is your stance?
Posted 11/13/2013 1:30 AM (GMT 0)
I am in favor of vaccinations.
Posted 11/13/2013 1:40 AM (GMT 0)
I am in favor of them too. I kind of don't understand people who are not. I'd love to hear counterarguments if anyone's got some.
Posted 11/13/2013 2:00 AM (GMT 0)
I think vaccines are important but I am concerned about all of the metals in them as well as the aggressive schedule the AAP has for babies and young children. We followed a delayed schedule with my children. They have received all of their vaccines now but on a much slower pace. My MIL (who is a pediatrician) helped is come up with alternative schedules to bring to our pediatrician and let him choose the one he felt most comfortable with. It was a great learning process for me, we did this before Dr sears came out with the Vaccine book.
Posted 11/13/2013 2:09 AM (GMT 0)
for
Posted 11/13/2013 2:21 AM (GMT 0)

sfc425 said...
I am in favor of them too. I kind of don't understand people who are not. I'd love to hear counterarguments if anyone's got some.

I would hate to hear counterarguments.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/alternative-vaccination-schedules/ said...
The preponderance of information in the medical literature on vaccinations is as clear as any topic in medicine. Vaccines are effective and they are safe. The best bet for keeping your child, and your community, healthy is to get vaccinated and to do it on schedule.

@mom2boys, I question your judgement, but I deplore you husband's foolishness.
Posted 11/13/2013 2:26 AM (GMT 0)
hey let's be civil here

we're talking inoculations, must keep it sanitary
Posted 11/13/2013 3:04 AM (GMT 0)
DB, if you read my post you will see that my children have received all of their vaccines, we never had them get more than 2 at a time. It meant more trips to the dr but it gave their bodies a chance to process the inoculations. My mother in law is a pediatric oncologist (retired from the NIH) and is very pro-vaccine but also thinks the schedule is hard on infants. I am not sure how my husband fits into this other than listening to his mother. Our pediatrician (the male to whom I refer in my post) agreed to everything without question since our children received all of their vaccines by the time they were two and a half. This extended the schedule by six months and required a few extra trips (a visit at 9 months rather than only 6 and 12 and another at 15 months). I can see people being concerned about non-vaccinating their children, but I do think an extended but full schedule is a good compromise. I know vaccines are a touchy subject, some people feel that they actually weaken our immune systems and expose us to toxic chemicals but I think it is equally terrible for a child to die of whooping cough or the measles.
Posted 11/13/2013 3:20 AM (GMT 0)
Momto, I agree spreading them out over a longer period of time is a good idea. So many shots close together might cause havoc on a young developing immune system.
Posted 11/13/2013 3:46 AM (GMT 0)
For vaccines, against injections.
Posted 11/13/2013 12:09 PM (GMT 0)
Could the question be any more broad? Not relevant to this board at all. Anyone who is 100% "for" without any question for something that has a fund setup by the government to help damaged kids needs to question their own judgement. Is that the conversation you are looking to start.... lol. You just get people calling other people ignorant because they developed an their own stance on the subject. Just giving you a heads up.
Posted 11/13/2013 12:13 PM (GMT 0)
I don't know what I am going to do with my son,new baby in a few days or so.
He is dead set against any,says he has researched it thoroughly and the adjuvants are the problem.
I am afraid he has researched the internet nuts,or bad science.
I have explained to him the deaths in our own family, by grandmothers sister,from diphtheria back in
the 1920's, he also does not like antibiotics,which we all know messes up our guts.
But some times they are necessary,like my cousin back in 1960 at age 18 she stood up and had a heart attack,hit the floor dead. Why,strep or whatever turned into rheumatic feaver,damaged her heart, back in the 40's no antibiotics,or she did not get them.

I have showed him pictures of the boy in the iron lung,which used to scare the crap out of me when I
was a kid back in the 50's,polio was bad news back then.

I believe the vaccine schedule is too fast,but the docs just came out with info a few weeks ago that it is
not.
Anyway I am pulling my frigging hair out or what is left of it,trying to get him to vaccinate the kid.
I think I had mumps, when I was a kid,boy was I sick.
I keep trying to tell him for some disease it does not matter how strong your immune system is
even the healty none chemically contaminated people back in say 1900 were killed by many of these
diseases.
He now tells me not to bother.
The Paleo lifestyle,or whatever you want to call it, can be carried too far.
OM
Posted 11/13/2013 12:45 PM (GMT 0)
100% for.
Posted 11/13/2013 1:12 PM (GMT 0)
Absolutely far. Yes, some kids are hurt by vaccines, but I absolutely do not believe it causes autism or any of that garbage. If a child has a negative reaction to a vaccine, I feel it's more of a relatively rare allergy issue -- something like a food allergy, so to speak.

I mainly vaccinate my children to protect them, but I also vaccinate them to contribute to herd immunity. There is a segment of the population who either cannot be vaccinated (due to a valid medical problem) or for whom vaccines are not effective. I feel that I should do what I can to help protect those people from some pretty horrid diseases.

Old Mike, I feel for you.
Posted 11/13/2013 1:18 PM (GMT 0)
In favor. My kids have all their vaccinations. Too important and irresponsible not to. (My opinion) We just don't do the flu vaccination.
Posted 11/13/2013 1:33 PM (GMT 0)
I vaccinated my children. I did it not only for the health of my kids but for the health of society at large and when after my second son was born I was extremely happy to add a streptococcus pneumo vaccine to the list of shots since his older brother nearly died from that bacteria when he was three.

My youngest is on the autism spectrum and has health problems. After 13 years, I am fully convinced he was born that way, not made that way by something I or others did to him by our negligence.
Posted 11/13/2013 1:40 PM (GMT 0)

momto2boys said...
I think vaccines are important but I am concerned about all of the metals


I am totally against any vaccines for myself. But if you are talking flu vaccines I will not judge or advise anyone here especially since some of us have compromised immune systems and are on immunosuppressants.

But it may be a good idea if you are pregnant and want to receive the flu vaccine that you get the thimerosal-free single vial version of the flu vaccine for yourself and your small children. According to the CDC, the majority of flu vaccines contain thimerosal. Some contain as much as 25 mcg of mercury per dose. This means that it may contain more than 250 times the Environmental Protection Agency’s safety limit for mercury.

By now, most people are well aware that children and fetuses are most at risk of damage from this neurotoxin as their brains are still developing. Yet the CDC still recommends that children over 6 months, and pregnant women, receive the flu vaccine each year.

So just to be on the safe side, if you are pregnant or have an infant and want to get a flu shot you must specifically insist on getting the thimerosal-free single vial version. Otherwise you probably will get the vaccine that contains mercury.

Here is a one hour video that shows some medical authorities justifying vaccines, as well as opposing points of view. I thought it was very powerful.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2NlxVrR_LM

Post Edited (BabeintheWoods) : 11/13/2013 6:45:03 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/13/2013 1:49 PM (GMT 0)
Interestingly enough, the impetus behind developing multiple-disease vaccines such as MMR and in giving multiple vaccines at one visit was to increase the number of children who were fully vaccinated. Years ago most medical insurance didn't cover routine preventive care, so each visit for vaccines cost a parent both time and money. By combining the vaccines, it made it more likely that children would receive all of them.

As times change, sometimes the standard practices aren't revised as quickly as they should be. Although the CDC's recommended schedule does allow a time range for each vaccine. When people stretch out the vaccines, they are usually still within these ranges.
Posted 11/13/2013 1:54 PM (GMT 0)
I'm for vaccination but afraid to do flu shots.
Posted 11/13/2013 2:21 PM (GMT 0)
100% in favor, for myself, my child, etc.
Posted 11/13/2013 2:50 PM (GMT 0)
I have to play devil's advocate here and say against. Just because some authority says it's "good for you" doesn't necessarily mean it's true. Anytime someone gives you a seemingly magical claim like "x will protect against y", you have to look into it thoroughly and see if the science supports it, especially if this claim comes from a governmental agency. They've not only been wrong before, but many have been harmed in the name of science. One can say that their faulty advice is almost comparable to an eugenics experiment or a survival of the fittest ideal.

I used to be pro-vaccinations, but after looking at the science and data, the efficacy rates just aren't there. The polio vaccine didn't prevent polio from reoccurring and the same with small-pox. Heavily vaccinated populations still came down with these:

A 1978 survey of 30 states showed that more than half of all children who contracted measles had been fully vaccinated. Sweden abandoned its whooping cough vaccine after it examined 5,140 cases of whooping cough in 1978 and found that 84 percent had been vaccinated three times. A 1990 Journal of American Medicine Association article stated that "Although more than 95 percent of school-aged children in the US are vaccinated against measles, large measles outbreaks continue to occur in schools and most cases. . . occur among previously vaccinated children." The medical literature is filled with example after example of the failure of vaccination to furnish protection against common childhood diseases.

Further, vaccines didn't end the epidemics; sanitation and reforms did:

Experts attribute the cessation of epidemic diseases not to mass vaccination, but to a major sanitation reform movement that swept Europe during the 1800s. These reforms included moving human waste out of streets via plumbing systems; regularly cleaning streets and stables of horse manure and human waste; improving roads so that meats, vegetables and raw milk could be distributed in cities while still fresh; and upgrading water distribution systems to prevent bacterial contamination.12

As for the flu vaccine, I thought Osterham detailed very well in the Lancet meta-analysis study that it didn't have any protective effect in the young or elderly, nor did it establish "herd immunity" effect that everyone raves about. It doesn't even guarantee that you won't get the flu because of the different strains each year. The worst thing about the vaccine is coming down with something 100% preventable like Guillain-Barre.

After seeing the utter misery and suffering of vaccine victims, it's hard for me to be for it anymore. It could happen to anyone, but why be blissfully ignorant of it until it happens to you? Things like the HPV vaccine are dangerous and causing permanent harm to many young girls and for what? To reduce the risk of developing something that is easily preventable through other means?

The best way to build up immunity and decrease the risk of developing anything is to boost the immune system through nutritional means so that it can fight it off. If the immune system isn't sealed, then the risk of developing something, not just small pox or polio increases substantially.

Post Edited (StealthGuardian) : 11/13/2013 7:57:24 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/13/2013 2:57 PM (GMT 0)
Not in favor. Have you ever gotten a cold outside of flu season? That pretty much puts to bed, the idea of flu season. This whole country is now riddled by immune deficiency, because we are ripping out our mitochondria from antibiotic usage. Parent's will say they don't remember getting some of these vaccines as kids, and they are right, they didnt. There is no proof that these toxic cocktails (specifically flu shots) have any more healing power than plain old, eating healthy, getting plenty of rest and water.

Refer to BabeInTheWoods post in the "IBD, meds and flu shots" thread.

BabeintheWoods said...
I thought thimerosal was no longer used in vaccines. Is that wrong?

Yes it is wrong. I think you are confusing childhood vaccinations which no longer contain mercury, but according to the CDC:
www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/thimerosal.htm
Do the 2013-2014 seasonal flu vaccines contain thimerosal?

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved several formulations of the seasonal flu vaccine, including multi-dose vials and single-dose units. Since seasonal influenza vaccine is produced in large quantities for annual immunization campaigns, some of the vaccine is produced in multi-dose vials, and contains thimerosal to safeguard against possible contamination of the vial once it is opened.

The single-dose units are made without thimerosal as a preservative because they are intended to be opened and used only once. Additionally, the live-attenuated version of the vaccine (the nasal spray vaccine), is produced in single-dose units and does not contain thimerosal.

That is why my earlier post recommended that mothers and infants make sure they receive the single-dose version. In addition to mercury, flu vaccines also contain other toxic or hazardous ingredients like:

Aluminum -- a neurotoxin that has been linked to Alzheimer’s disease
Triton X-100 -- a detergent
Phenol (carbolic acid)
Ethylene glycol (antifreeze)
Betapropiolactone - a disinfectant
Nonoxynol - used to kill or stop growth of STDs
Octoxinol 9 - a vaginal spermicide
Sodium phosphate

That's disgusting, its a miracle the body can be so forgiving.

Side effects that are published in medical literature (and this is a short list): auto immune disease, lupus, reactive arthritis, hives, rashes, seizures, M.S., insulin dependent diabetes, visual problems, central retinal artery allusion (which causes blindness), asthma, eczema and yes autism, all of which is only attached to the Hepatitis B vaccine.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JaGHJ8w5a8

All I can say, is educate yourself, don't believe a misleading account of information regarding flu shots over the web, media or news, do your research. Dr Sheri Tenpenny has spent over 10 years studying vaccines. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2CMDuy-Bh8

I'm not denying that vaccines can help, but more research is necessary to determine any benefits of becoming vaccinated.
Posted 11/13/2013 3:56 PM (GMT 0)
Colds and flu are not the same entity. I've also had viral rashes outside flu season.

Just for accuracy.
Posted 11/13/2013 4:09 PM (GMT 0)
"Parent's will say they don't remember getting some of these vaccines as kids, and they are right, they didnt."

My mom didn't get a pertussis vaccine as a kid, but she got pertussis. And clearly remembers how awful it was.  Not being able to breathe isn't fun...

And yes, people who are vaccinated against pertussis still get it. But, we know that the pertussis vaccine wears off, which is why boosters are now recommended, especially for parents and caregivers of new babies. Pertussis can be deadly for unvaccinated newborns.

Posted 11/13/2013 4:21 PM (GMT 0)

StealthGuardian said...
I have to play devil's advocate here and say against. Just because some authority says it's "good for you" doesn't necessarily mean it's true. Anytime someone gives you a seemingly magical claim like "x will protect against y", you have to look into it thoroughly and see if the science supports it, especially if this claim comes from a governmental agency. They've not only been wrong before, but many have been harmed in the name of science. One can say that their faulty advice is almost comparable to an eugenics experiment or a survival of the fittest ideal.

I used to be pro-vaccinations, but after looking at the science and data, the efficacy rates just aren't there. The polio vaccine didn't prevent polio from reoccurring and the same with small-pox. Heavily vaccinated populations still came down with these:

A 1978 survey of 30 states showed that more than half of all children who contracted measles had been fully vaccinated. Sweden abandoned its whooping cough vaccine after it examined 5,140 cases of whooping cough in 1978 and found that 84 percent had been vaccinated three times. A 1990 Journal of American Medicine Association article stated that "Although more than 95 percent of school-aged children in the US are vaccinated against measles, large measles outbreaks continue to occur in schools and most cases. . . occur among previously vaccinated children." The medical literature is filled with example after example of the failure of vaccination to furnish protection against common childhood diseases.

Further, vaccines didn't end the epidemics; sanitation and reforms did:

Experts attribute the cessation of epidemic diseases not to mass vaccination, but to a major sanitation reform movement that swept Europe during the 1800s. These reforms included moving human waste out of streets via plumbing systems; regularly cleaning streets and stables of horse manure and human waste; improving roads so that meats, vegetables and raw milk could be distributed in cities while still fresh; and upgrading water distribution systems to prevent bacterial contamination.12

As for the flu vaccine, I thought Osterham detailed very well in the Lancet meta-analysis study that it didn't have any protective effect in the young or elderly, nor did it establish "herd immunity" effect that everyone raves about. It doesn't even guarantee that you won't get the flu because of the different strains each year. The worst thing about the vaccine is coming down with something 100% preventable like Guillain-Barre.

After seeing the utter misery and suffering of vaccine victims, it's hard for me to be for it anymore. It could happen to anyone, but why be blissfully ignorant of it until it happens to you? Things like the HPV vaccine are dangerous and causing permanent harm to many young girls and for what? To reduce the risk of developing something that is easily preventable through other means?

The best way to build up immunity and decrease the risk of developing anything is to boost the immune system through nutritional means so that it can fight it off. If the immune system isn't sealed, then the risk of developing something, not just small pox or polio increases substantially.

There is not enough NOPE in me to explain how entirely wrong this all is. I'm honestly offended as a scientist.
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