Changing Incidence of Inflammatory Bowel Disease: Environmental Influences and Lessons Learnt from t

More developed a country, the more antibiotics are used. Simple.

Levi: Here is the African children vs Euro children study,I posted it august,2012.

Old Mike

http://www.pnas.org/content/107/33/14691.full.pdf

Max: It seems that in Vietnam they routinely wipe out their gut bacteria with antibiotics. Yet

I do not believe the IBD incidence is high,but not sure.

http://gapsdiet.com/uploads/Newsletter3.pdf

Safety:

http://www.probiotic.org/bacillus-subtilis.htm

http://www.essentialformulas.com/news/Nan_Fuchs_September_Newslet.pdf

http://www.sporegen.com/bacilluspro.html

A heck here is the whole old thread.

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=2834542&p=4

Been thinking about things a bit tonight again. Mainly diet. And the influence of diet. Although there seems to be a correlation of a rise in IBD in "western worlds" lol, I really don't think diet has much to do with it. I do feel it effects symptoms. I'm now actually iffy on antibiotics but feel there is a strong contribution perhaps - but unproven and well, hard to prove actually.

I've just been thinking that of course all these bacterial studies between cultures are going to show higher prevalence of one bacteria or another and even diet vs. diet studies and such - this is simply because of the change in "their" food source favoring one over the other. As for the health effects of this, well that can be left to the "nutritionists" to argue over. After all there is pretty much zero difference between our intestines and a waste treatment facility. It's all dealt with in generally the same manner and mainly by bacteria. But are these bacteria that thrive off a westernized diet more harmful/pathogenic? Not really. There seems to be equal potential bad guys on both sides of the fence.

A lot of vegans and vegetarians and very healthy eating people come down with IBD just as much as those that eat the typical western diet I think. And even with vegetables, many we can only partially digest and require bacteria to do the rest for us. So depending on the type of oligiosaccaride present, different bacteria are stimulated or suppressed.

What is intriguing to me is that in a few IBD mouse models the IBD like symptoms are transmissible - but always in the case of something missing or a "lack of" in regards to the immune system.

So it always leads me to think about a bacterial cause. Almost as if there's a type(s) of bacteria that just needs that opening and wham. I really don't think our immune system or autoimmune arises out of the blue one night - which is what happens in a large portion of IBD patients - one day good the next wham IBD. Or perhaps something incidental - like a bacterial infection of say salmonella where they effect our immune system in just the right way (negatively) and we just happen to come into contact with another type of bacteria that take advantage of this opening.

Anyway - just totally rambling and thinking/typing out loud again... I forget why I even made this post. There was something relevant that I read tonight but lost what the heck it was when I started thinking, haha. Hmmmm...

Post Edited (Canada Mark) : 1/24/2014 9:41:16 PM (GMT-7)

OH yeah - I read somewhere tonight that in the absence of certain bacteria Saturated Fat generates an extremely intense immune reaction.

So I'm curious what else dose as well.

Also this made me think just now of artificial sugar... Do we have the same intense immune reaction to it in the absence of certain bacteria.

Post Edited (Canada Mark) : 1/24/2014 9:46:56 PM (GMT-7)

Antimicrobial Peptides and Colitis
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662473/

Just more info - follows the same pattern and pathway of when stuff is effective or acts against bacteria coltis/IBD is generally improved.

Post Edited (Canada Mark) : 1/24/2014 11:53:10 PM (GMT-7)

How well are things going for you, Imagardner? I know you've never wanted to try biologics. Did you ever get to a point where you were stuck at home unable to work or go out from UC? I got to that point two years ago, and it's what got me on Remicade. I've wondered sometimes if I stopped Remicade how I would do... would I instantly flare, or has something been changed in me now that I've been in remission a while?

Hope you and your husband are doing well. :)

Yes, I had to alter my work schedule because of accident-fear (I was self-employed). Luckily my income was not affected, just my life :-( In years past I definitely would cancel social things and schedule my trips around where bathrooms were. I stayed in denial way too long although I continued complaining to GI's. But none of their Rx meds ever did anything positive for me, except mesalamine enemas. But enemas did not "fix" me, just stopped the bleeding temporarily.

I can't answer what would happen to you if you stopped Remicade but suspect you'd get worse, UC rarely disappears on it's own. Do I recommend you do what I did? Only if you had no other choice available, meaning a choice you wanted to make. Diet mod. is very, very hard in the beginning because it is a 180 degree change from what we grow up eating (mainly lots of bread, pasta).

I am very happy with my diet now because more "out" foods are now possible (small amounts). I have always been a healthy eater and can see the benefits of my low carb diet for overall health, not just UC. Luckily I have a husband who is even healthier in diet than I am lol.
Had my favorite dinner last night, .35 oz NY strip, green beans and half a baked potato. Heaven.
Red meat= 8 oz per week (2 meals), rest of week is chicken and veggies. I love to cook and love to eat. Trying to lose 5 lbs and wear some too-tight clothes.

Hope you find your best solution.

edit to add: in case anyone is thinking "red meat is bad for UC" I will remind that I was a happy vegetarian (not vegan) for several years at the time I got UC, no meat at all. Red meat was absolutely not responsible for my UC. That's why I think antibiotics are the culprit in my case plus the other factors mentioned above including chlorine/flouride and bad bacteria getting in sneakily somehow.

We eat organic, no anti-biotic, grass fed meat (chicken, beef, buffalo). My gut hates fish/seafood right now which is sad because I do love all seafood. Maybe someday...

Post Edited (imagardener2) : 1/25/2014 8:59:26 AM (GMT-7)

I really don't think diet has much of anything to do with coming down with UC. Seems ridiculous to me. For people who think this, what does "diet" mean? Most people seem to think it means one of two things, (unless you want to link them together as one):

1. Western food diet

2. Unhealthy diet

There's actually a lot of proof that neither one of these cause UC because there are many who come down with UC who eat "healthy" diets and, as far as I know, there are cases of UC in every country of the world. If it were mainly due to a Western diet then no one eating a nonwestern diet would ever come down with UC and no one eating a healthy diet would ever come down with UC and they do.

Now you could make the argument that certain diets can improve UC after you already have it.

I wouldn't argue that antibiotics aren't a part of the puzzle or even a dominate cause in some cases but I don't think high usage directly correlates to high antibiotic usage with UC rates. Antibiotics are probably overused and misused in Mexico, for example, far more than the US and Canada. They are sold over the counter and marketed heavily directly to the public. Much lower IBD rates.

I don't know how you can argue that western diet isn't part of the puzzle for some people when you have IBD rates jumping in immigrants from other cultures with low rates and better diets. Diabetes, heart disease,..all rise in these populations and diet does change.

As to diets helping to reduce severity or frequency of flares once you have IBD, little(no) proof exists but what is the downside to eating a healthy diet and a healthy lifestyle? Nothing.

Western diet increases inflammation because fat cells instigate a inflammatory response when consuming a high calorie diet. Not really known why they do this but It would seem fairly easy to study if obesity or a high calorie diet is more common in IBD suffers before diagnosis. It would also seem that you would benefit from dropping a high calorie diet regardless if it "causes" IBD if you know it causes inflammation, right?

The unfortunate thing about lifestyle changes is that they take time and IBD is unpredictable and chronic. You can't experiment on yourself and expect useful results like you can with a powerful drug.