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Cause of Colitis

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Ulcerative Colitis
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Posted 8/20/2014 5:59 PM (GMT 0)
I have read countless times that no one knows the cause of Ulcerative Colitis. Furthermore, it seems that people actually don't have it all that narrowed down. It could still be anything from immune system malfunction to infection to barrier dysfunction to dysbiosis etc. However, I have also read that stress and diet do not cause UC...HOW CAN THEY KNOW THIS!!!? Where is the research? How do they figure out that these two things definitely do not cause the disease when they have no idea what does? If it is possible to figure out FOR SURE what DOESN'T cause UC, we should really just keep eliminated things until we find the cause... Right?
Posted 8/20/2014 6:04 PM (GMT 0)
Chemicals that can cause UC:

Dextran sodium sulfate, Trinitrobenzenesulfonic acid, Carrageenan, Acetic Acid, Isotretinoin (Accutane) and more I'm sure.

They all work by detroying the delicate lining of the protective mucosal barrier of the large intestine, causing the bacteria to infiltrate the lining and provoke an immune system response.
Posted 8/20/2014 6:05 PM (GMT 0)
Well there are many people who are stressed out and do not have uc. There are also many people who change their diet and don't get uc. If it was such a simple link, then it would be obvious 'A' causes 'B'. More likely then not, the cause of uc is complex: a series of things that led up to uc, or multiple triggers that can cause uc, or an umbrella of similar symptoms called a single disease. They are all theories, a run away immune system that attacks self (healthy tissue), and unknown pathogeon the immune system is attacking and cannot destroy within gut tissue, oh so many theories... all I want is a cure
Posted 8/20/2014 6:06 PM (GMT 0)
Also, antibiotics such as clindamycin or other tetracyclines
Posted 8/20/2014 6:10 PM (GMT 0)
Basically, most of the medicines a dermatologist can give to their acne patients are linked to UC.
Posted 8/20/2014 6:11 PM (GMT 0)
Yah, but by that logic UC is definitely NOT caused by infection or immune dysfunction because there are people with both of those problems that do not have UC...I'm not arguing that stress and diet cause UC, just that it is really ridiculous to make the claim that they DON'T cause it. Also, I could be wrong...maybe there is some research out there that I'm missing...
Posted 8/20/2014 6:13 PM (GMT 0)
^^ directed at ipoop...sorry, I'm new at these forms.

FightUC,

Yah, I have definitely ready studies on that stuff...really scary...I took antibiotics quite a bit...definitely will think twice now.
Posted 8/20/2014 6:20 PM (GMT 0)
FightUC,

I noticed that you have tried FMT...how long did you do it for? I had really good luck with it right away and then had a relapse. I'm not sure if I did it long enough. I am planning to try to do it again, but this time for 3-6 months (nearly every day) and then 1 a week for a year. Also, I might try antibiotic pre-treatment and bowel lavage before the first transplant. Michael Hurst, Sky Curtis's son, and Dr. Borody have had really good results with it. I'm always curious to hear about someone's story with FMT.
Posted 8/20/2014 6:27 PM (GMT 0)
I did it for approximately 3 or 4 times, using 3 empty rowasa bottle full of strained poop water each time.

Since then, I have had reduced bleeding, but increased pain, gas and bloating.

This was an at home DIY FMT, but ever since then my bowel movements have been different. It wasn't immediate, the immediate effects were pain, constipation and extremely narrow stools, but no blood.

At one point I was able to just use 1 sfRowasa every 2 or 3 days and have well formed stools with no mess, no blood, no pain. Since having multiple intralesional kenalog injections for an unrelated issue, i have been back in a flare and in pain.
Posted 8/20/2014 7:10 PM (GMT 0)
Everything interacts with the immune system so that leads to a plethora of causal potentials. Everything mentioned in this thread can play a role in immune function. That's the problem.
Posted 8/20/2014 7:26 PM (GMT 0)
Dr-A, can you please elaborate on or share your sources on as to how dextran sodium sulfate, Trinitrobenzenesulfonic acid, Carrageenan, Acetic Acid, Isotretinoin (Accutane) and tetracycline antibiotics interface with the immune system?

I am sure there are effects of the hepatic and cardiovascular system as well, but believe that the primary defect is in the GI system, as opposed to any other system, including the immune system.

Treating the symptoms, such as the immune system, is not treating the cause, and part of that is due to the widespread belief that this disease is an auto-immune disease, thus we will never find a cure unless we starting looking for the cause.
Posted 8/20/2014 8:17 PM (GMT 0)
They don't know what the immune system is attacking in Ulcerative Colitis. It definitely seems to be in a different category from autoimmune diseases like MS (where it is known that the immune system attacks Myelin). There are some features of the disease that are not easily explained with autoimmunity. For example, why does the disease almost always start in the rectum and spread up the colon?

I really hope that this isn't an autoimmune disease...I think a cure would be much closer for an infection or barrier dysfunction. I also think that some of the theories surrounding barrier dysfunction are pretty solid. Lack of phosphatidylcholine and low goblet cell count in patients with UC can explain a lot about the disease.

My hope is that some sort of infection causes dysbiosis which in turn leads to barrier dysfunction in the gut. Once this happens, the disease takes on the appearance of an autoimmune disease as the immune system comes into direct contact with bacteria in the gut. Relapses could maybe be explained too. Once the immune system is introduced to bacteria in the gut that it normally wouldn't come into contact with, this bacteria becomes the enemy (the immune system develops anti-bodies against it). Now, every time your epithelial wall breaks down just a little bit, the immune response is exaggerated.

This should be reversible...although it could be extremely difficult for some. The dysbiosis would have to be continually reset with a healthy microbiome (FMT for months at a time) while the immune system is simultaneously shut down to allow the new colonies of microbes to flourish in the gut. If the cause is genetic (likely epigenetic), a cure is probably more complicated...but man, I have to believe it is possible.

Sorry for rambling on and on...I have a lot of theories running through my brain...I want to fix this sooo bad.
Posted 8/20/2014 8:22 PM (GMT 0)
You read the qubiologics stuff about ssi's? www.qubiologics.com/
Posted 8/20/2014 8:23 PM (GMT 0)
Don't forget about the genetic link. Four people in my family have UC. Three of us bad enough to have needed surgery. I doubt this is a coincidence.
Posted 8/20/2014 8:46 PM (GMT 0)
I agree with your thoughts Restless and Determined. I lean toward the barrier dysfunction theory initiating an immune response, mostly because it is the most hopeful. I hope the immune system attack isn't a malfunction directed at the colon's tissue because that sounds like it would be much much harder to correct than figuring out how to get the mucus barrier healed up and working like normal. A few of the studies i've read seemed to indicate that regardless of the cause, the more depleted the mucus barrier, the more severe the symptoms, so it seems possible that strengthening and rebuilding the mucus barrier as a therapy for UC and inducing remission is promising.

A few things I can think of that led me to get the disease were a year of crash dieting (screwing with gut microbiome, weakening mucus barrier possibly), trying to recover from an eating disorder (lots of bodily/hormonal/gut bacterial changes), a bout with infectious colitis a year ago, and then finally what led to the unstoppable bleeding was a round of antibiotics for a cellulitis infection in February.

My journey to retain my once good health has been very turbulent, but I remain hopeful and determined.

Research is happening and ongoing, and I'm thankful that there is a focus on developing better therapies and more effective/safer drugs at the very least.
Posted 8/20/2014 8:55 PM (GMT 0)
R&D...nothing we haven't heard before.

Not all autoimmune disorders attack and destroy unless it gets to that point. The trigger is the initial issue to get it going, and an invader via infection, virus, bacteria, allergy or dysbiosis, environmental poisons, medications, could be possibilities. That doesn't mean that once UC is set into motion that clearing the above will cure it.

I have no infection, I don't have dysbiosis...yet I still have UC.

As far as reversible...can't beat a dead colon into new state of functioning again, but early intervention and many times reliant on the doctors' initial choice of meds and/or patient's tolerance can surely help keep the cycle of flaring to a minimum or at bay for a long time.

The process is subjective to lifestyle, life situation, hormones, age, illnesses along the way, medications, and the biggie...genetics/predisposition and connection with illness already in progress.

With many of us, the stone only rolls downhill.....there's not a cure for everything, nor will there ever be.

q
Posted 8/20/2014 9:24 PM (GMT 0)

ByeByeUC said...
Don't forget about the genetic link. Four people in my family have UC. Three of us bad enough to have needed surgery. I doubt this is a coincidence.

Is there any chance that UC is contagious (again I have read that it is FOR SURE NOT contagious--but how can they know when they DON"T know...you know)? There was one experiment I read about that made it appear as if UC at least had the potential to be contagious (with rats anyway). I'll try to find it later...it was kind of interesting.

I tend to agree with you though...there must be some genetic component. I am thinking (and hoping) that it might be more like a genetic tendency to get a sinus infection. Some people get them easily, some rarely ever have to worry about it. This would be the case if, for example, my intestinal barrier was naturally a little bit "thinner" than normal. I just don't like to concentrate on genetics too much because we can't really do much to fix that. Although I have read a little about epigenetics--we may actually be able to change our genes more than we think!
Posted 8/20/2014 9:26 PM (GMT 0)

quincy said...
R&D...nothing we haven't heard before.

Not all autoimmune disorders attack and destroy unless it gets to that point. The trigger is the initial issue to get it going, and an invader via infection, virus, bacteria, allergy or dysbiosis, environmental poisons, medications, could be possibilities. That doesn't mean that once UC is set into motion that clearing the above will cure it.

I have no infection, I don't have dysbiosis...yet I still have UC.

As far as reversible...can't beat a dead colon into new state of functioning again, but early intervention and many times reliant on the doctors' initial choice of meds and/or patient's tolerance can surely help keep the cycle of flaring to a minimum or at bay for a long time.

The process is subjective to lifestyle, life situation, hormones, age, illnesses along the way, medications, and the biggie...genetics/predisposition and connection with illness already in progress.

With many of us, the stone only rolls downhill.....there's not a cure for everything, nor will there ever be.

q


"Never say never" -Justin Bieber
Posted 8/20/2014 9:32 PM (GMT 0)
Can't get around the genetics factor, which is involved in any disease.

A meta-analysis of 15 genome-wide association studies of inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) has been carried out and analysed along with data from an Immunochip study. One hundred and sixty-three loci were identified — the most for any complex disease to date.

Or this one from following link:

Like most genetic disorders, inheritance in IBD does not follow a simple Mendelian pattern. This would indicate that no single gene mutation is sufficient and/or necessary to contribute to disease, indicating that IBD represents complex, multigenic genetic disorders.

Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2679123/
Posted 8/20/2014 10:48 PM (GMT 0)
There seems to be an assumption here that there is one cause or trigger. There could be many causes which vary depending on circumstances.

I just want to try SSI now - in the initial tiral no side effects apart from a light transient fever observed in some patients which resolves within 24 hours. Compared with some of the other drugs I've been asked to put into my body, sounds fair enough to me!

Post Edited (Jonny_Murray) : 8/20/2014 4:53:19 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/20/2014 11:07 PM (GMT 0)

Here are a few abstracts on married people,there might even be a few examples here or on j-pouch.org,

where both have IBD.

Old Mike

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19858016

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7959244


Post Edited (Old Mike) : 8/20/2014 5:45:24 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/20/2014 11:37 PM (GMT 0)
^^ Those are REALLY interesting papers, OM. Thanks for sharing.

EDIT: Except one of them is 20 years old... Kinda disheartening.

Post Edited (Tunnelvisionary) : 8/20/2014 5:49:36 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/20/2014 11:38 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Old Mike! I hadn't seen those yet. Very interesting
Posted 8/21/2014 12:07 AM (GMT 0)
Yea there is not a lot of info on spousal IBD,a bit more with twin studies.
Since there is not 100% concordance in monozygotic twins then there is a very big
environmental component.


OM
Posted 8/21/2014 12:13 AM (GMT 0)
It's estimated that if one twin has crohn's disease, there is a 40-60% chance the other twin will also have crohn's disease...courtesy of Dr. Kevin Rioux, he did a report on the genetics and inheritance of IBD (including both UC and CD).
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