HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Natural versus modern medicine

Support Forums
>
Ulcerative Colitis
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 7/29/2015 5:11 PM (GMT 0)
Why is it that many people are so scared to take modern medications but will take pretty much any supplement as long as it's coined natural?
Just because it's natural it doesn't mean that it is safe it also doesn't mean that it doesn't have interactions or side affects
And just because it's a modern medication it doesn't mean that it's dangerous or scary
Granted, msny medications are scary and dangerous
However, without them we would be much worse off
Less than a century ago strep throat could have been a death sentence
Today it's rarely so
End rant.
Posted 7/29/2015 5:13 PM (GMT 0)
Its simply a matter of not being scientifically literate. Its as simple as that. If you cant critically evaluate the literature and dont understand the concept of differing strengths of evidence, you are going to believe what you WANT to hear, which is going to come from the happy go lucky "natural" people. In the end, the only truths we know are those that have been studied and "proven" using the scientific method
Posted 7/29/2015 5:24 PM (GMT 0)
I'm not afraid of modern medicine but then a LOT of modern medicine is based on natural ingredients, aspirin, penicillin, the list is long. I opened one of my Colazal pills and it looks suspiciously like Turmeric/Curcumin that I also take.

Perhaps it's because we don't like being plugged into a giant Pharma system where we are given little information from our doctors (Take this RX, don't ask me a lot of questions, I don't have time to explain everything. Trust me.) With supplements we might feel more in control because we make the decisions. I'm not saying it's right, just what the mindset could be.

My gut rejected about 98% of supplements I tried but I'm happy with the ones that work. I feel less stressed when I can take turmeric or oil of oregano or clay water and feel better, not worrying whether I'll be able to get an appointment to see a doctor.

Yesterday I had a skin biopsy of what I know is another squamous cancer. Happy that modern medicine will remove it with little problem.

Post Edited (imagardener2) : 7/29/2015 12:17:36 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 7/29/2015 5:42 PM (GMT 0)
Because maybe it's just easier to believe in nature than man-made garbage....when you see the commercials for all kinds of meds and listen to all the disgusting side effects that are likely to occur (which sound a lot worse than the disease/illness you're dealing with) would it make you run to your doctor and beg him to give you those meds or would you rather avoid them like the plague based on the ridiculous side effects? This is how a lot of people in general likely think.

And to be clear, I know that "naturals" can come with risks too, after all, people ("scientists") mess with them to turn them into something that's suppose to be consumable....and the FDA is a joke IMO, how many times do products get recalled after the fact...way too many times.

Plus, big pharma wants your money and that's the bottom line when it comes to RX.
Posted 7/29/2015 5:59 PM (GMT 0)

pb4 said...
Because maybe it's just easier to believe in nature than man-made garbage....when you see the commercials for all kinds of meds and listen to all the disgusting side effects that are likely to occur (which sound a lot worse than the disease/illness you're dealing with) would it make you run to your doctor and beg him to give you those meds or would you rather avoid them like the plague based on the ridiculous side effects? This is how a lot of people in general likely think.

And to be clear, I know that "naturals" can come with risks too, after all, people ("scientists") mess with them to turn them into something that's suppose to be consumable....and the FDA is a joke IMO, how many times do products get recalled after the fact...way too many times.

Plus, big pharma wants your money and that's the bottom line when it comes to RX.

Actually even natural chemicals that scientists dont change so that it can be patent it carry the exact same side effects, but because they arent studied, we dont know what they are.

An atom is an atom and a chemical is a chemical, regardless of whether a human has touched it. The most deadly substances on earth are "natural". Thats just an objective empirical fact...
Posted 7/29/2015 6:04 PM (GMT 0)

imagardener2 said...
Perhaps it's because we don't like being plugged into a giant Pharma system where we are given little information from our doctors (Take this RX, don't ask me a lot of questions, I don't have time to explain everything. Trust me.) With supplements we might feel more in control because we make the decisions. I'm not saying it's right, just what the mindset could be.

Think this has nailed it.

I'm not somebody who even believes in 99% of alternative health bollocks, but I can see why people get pissed off with the conventional healthcare system. Doctors really are crap at explaining things. If you want some explanations (or even to just be believed!), a consultation with your average doctor can be a disappointing experience.

The legal requirement to list all side-effects (even if only 1 person reported a particular side-effect) doesn't help either. You are not likely to get the vast majority of side-effects that are listed, and many of them are exceedingly rare. But people see a long list of scary side-effects and think they're gonna get all of them, up to and including cancer and death.
Posted 7/29/2015 6:24 PM (GMT 0)
I agree NCOT, but I dont think its fair to place the blame completely on the Drs. Most patients are very uniformed about their diseases and drugs, and most couldnt care less and just do what the Dr tells them. Its also difficult to relay complex scientific and medical information to someone who doesnt even understand the central dogma of life. Lastly, theres really no excuse for people not self-educating themselves in the days of the internet. Just my two cents
Posted 7/29/2015 6:50 PM (GMT 0)
I don't think anyone has a clue to be honest....one day we're told salt is bad and to only consume a certain amount (same with eggs for examples) then the next day they change the allowable "safe" consumption, so honestly who are you suppose to have faith in and believe?? Not to mention, those two examples have gone back and forth for decades.

The internet lol....so much conflicting info on it it's not even funny...read yesterday that nuts/seeds are inflammatory on a few sites and on other sites how healthy they are...would leave anyone's head spinning and hard to trust anything.

That's why we have gut instincts to try and rely on but sometimes you can't even trust that...pretty much you're darned if you do and you're darned if you don't.
Posted 7/29/2015 7:24 PM (GMT 0)
It's not just big pharma that wants money ... supplements are a HUGE business and want your money too. It's up to us consumers to wade through all the hype on each side and then try to make informed decisions about what is good for us.
Posted 7/29/2015 7:39 PM (GMT 0)
There are a lot of misconceptions on both sides.
Posted 7/29/2015 8:11 PM (GMT 0)
Whoa lots of really interesting responded
the reason I'm scared of naturals is becaus there is little research on a lot of these drugs
With medicine there has to be significant evidence and every though drugs are recalled its a very small percentage
I feel like I know what I'm getting myself into when I take a medicine over some herbal remedy that originated in some unknown place that may or may not be well regulated
That being said if a doctor recommends it I would look into it
Mayoclinic is definitely reliable and they have great information on most medications
Posted 7/29/2015 8:48 PM (GMT 0)
Reason pharmaceuticals charge as much as they do is because the research that goes into those drugs is incredibly large. Sure they make a good % of money, but if they made insane profits, then somebody would have undercut them long ago. The patents and research cost a fortune and they have to make it back in the few years that they have the patent for before generics can be produced that don't have to finance the research.

I hate when people always complain about big corporations and don't consider everything, 1) everybody loves money, including people that complain about costs 2) If the profits were way out of line someone else would make it cheaper, undercut it and make a killing 3) it's just how the corporate world works.
Posted 7/29/2015 9:08 PM (GMT 0)
I used to be all crazy "I am going to handle this with natural cures" when I first got diagnosed. What no one told me (and what I should have figured out myself) is that the more this disease gets out of control, the worse it gets.

I consider myself an intelligent person but even the most educated people can fall into the beautiful trap of denial. And that's why herbal cures are so seductive. They offer so many promises without paying any price. It's very easy to believe in something when it lacks the research to back it up. Herbal cures are a blank canvas where you can paint all your hopes onto them. Sure, I still use them but I am far more realistic now.
Posted 7/29/2015 10:29 PM (GMT 0)
To come to some of their defenses, there are several natural things that have documented medical studies done on them in regards to UC. VSL, Boswellia, Curcumin, just to name a few. I'm sure there are a few others. Those are the ones to start with for anyone going the natural route. Many have zero evidence of living up to their claims. It is well known that most meds can have side effects, some of them very dangerous. For the most part, most herbs and other supplements do not have many, if any, bad side effects. It is more likely that in a lot of cases they just don't do diddly squat or offer a placebo effect at best.
Posted 7/29/2015 10:44 PM (GMT 0)
There's probably not a single thing out there that someone won't have a reaction to...but there are things that can be deadly to some and not to others...look at a simple peanut for example, which has killed people that are extremely allergic to them.

Look how marijuana effects some people but not others (I myself think it's the best medication out there for me as far as making my guts feel normal and any other physical aches and pains) some have great experiences with it while it makes others completely paranoid...Bee Propolis was also very helpful in regards to aiding with my symptoms somewhat (when I was going 30+ times a day and it cut that down to 15/day with no bleeding I thought that was pretty impressive, didn't likely do squat, or maybe it did help my inflammation some, I honestly don't know and never will) it is what it is I suppose and probably safe to say that most things can serve some purpose.

Everyone's different in regards to what works for them and what doesn't.
Posted 7/29/2015 11:00 PM (GMT 0)
This is some terrific dialogue. I came into UC completely sure that I would achieve remission and eventually dump the meds, all due to my pristine diet, vitamin d and probiotic!

That has proven to not be the case. Over my 3 years with UC, I've tried dozens of diets and natural cures, as well as meds- some helped a little, a few made things worse (I'm looking at you, slippery elm) but most did nothing except take my money. I'm skeptical of most things at this point and if I have to take western meds forever so be it. However, Isatis Cooling has been a lifesaver for me- so glad I tried it. I guess my message is to be open but skeptical if that is possible. There can be a balance.
Posted 7/29/2015 11:10 PM (GMT 0)

Marauder93 said...
I agree NCOT, but I dont think its fair to place the blame completely on the Drs. Most patients are very uniformed about their diseases and drugs, and most couldnt care less and just do what the Dr tells them. Its also difficult to relay complex scientific and medical information to someone who doesnt even understand the central dogma of life. Lastly, theres really no excuse for people not self-educating themselves in the days of the internet. Just my two cents

I never placed the blame entirely on the doctors. But attempting to justify their appalling communication by saying the patients are too stupid to understand what they are being told isn't really helping your cause, imo. It's not that hard to explain things clearly and concisely. As it so happens, I have learnt quite a lot of medical jargon over the past few years, and it's not nearly as difficult to understand as perhaps some professionals think it is. By the same token, it wouldn't be difficult for me to translate jargon back into English.

The internet is a two-edged sword. For every good medical site there's probably at least 5 terrible alt health blogs, and Dr Google makes no distinction between them. Speaking of Dr Google, you have to be a pretty non-anxious person to be able to google your symptoms and not worry when you see cancer listed as one of the possible causes - even if it's just a mild twinge that you have.

I'm probably waffling now (it's that time of the night). Gonna post this and then shoot off to bed.
Posted 7/29/2015 11:41 PM (GMT 0)
I agree with the scientific method - theorise something, test it out beyond all reasonable doubt and report the results as facts. The problem is, just like anything else, it's open to corruption. Data gets falsified, evidence gets tampered with and "facts" are often reported that are hugely weighted towards whatever solution provides the largest revenue stream. The book "Bad Pharma" is a good breakdown of how that all works.

Just look at the trend towards vegetable oil and margarine, touted as the perfect replacements for "unhealthy fats" like butter and eggs, which were said to increase cholesterol and heart disease risk. It's taken 30+ years of studying the actual harmful effects on human beings for us to realise that was all nonsense - and dangerous nonsense at that. But the scientific community backed them as safer alternatives for many years.

Back to UC: Most conditions that we consider incurable today are awaiting a revelation about their cause. UC is one of them. Personally, I don't buy the autoimmune approach - I think the answer lies more in ongoing mucosal breaches by bad bacteria but until the truth is found, Pharma, naturals and surgery offer symptom reduction. Man-made or not, I'll use whatever helps most.
Posted 7/29/2015 11:58 PM (GMT 0)

garylouisville said...
To come to some of their defenses, there are several natural things that have documented medical studies done on them in regards to UC. VSL, Boswellia, Curcumin, just to name a few. I'm sure there are a few others. Those are the ones to start with for anyone going the natural route. Many have zero evidence of living up to their claims. It is well known that most meds can have side effects, some of them very dangerous. For the most part, most herbs and other supplements do not have many, if any, bad side effects. It is more likely that in a lot of cases they just don't do diddly squat or offer a placebo effect at best.

Correct. Psyllium Seed Powder has done more for me than asacol etc. I like sulfasalazine its simple, old school and often works and not just on UC but on other problems as well.

I am scientifically literate, have a degree in computer science, manage a technical team, hold multiple commercial pilot licenses with thousands of hours but the first thing you want to know when checked out in an aircraft with auto-pilot is 'how do I turn that thing off' because you need to be able to hand fly it sometimes.

Prednisone has saved me overnight but also put me in the ICU, tendon surgery, plantar fasciatis and the cancer risk of biologics is a large caution sign to me.

However I am open minded and eagerly await the next generation of UC meds, until I can get them via trial/study or at the local pharmacy I am going to rely on things generally proven safe.

I trust the scientific method, I do not 100% trust big pharma.
Posted 8/1/2015 10:18 PM (GMT 0)
Overall, and I don't want to sound harsh here, people tend to be too quick to believe in what they want to hear, and ignorant of all the facts. Especially now, when reams of information, right and wrong, are available via the web, people turn off their brains.

We need to spend more time with thinking critically, looking up relevant credible sources of information, and examining everything available before we make sound judgments.

In my opinion, these factors separate those who seek the best knowledge possible from those who seek the information that fits their various biases.
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply