HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

MAP link to Crohns - Does anyone have access to full doc?

Support Forums
>
Ulcerative Colitis
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 11/10/2015 1:11 PM (GMT 0)
Saw this interesting article around MAP infection. Yet another article suggesting a strong link between Crohns and MAP.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25994082?dopt=Abstract

However, it also implies that it studied IBD in a wider sense, so I'm wondering whether anyone can get access to the full article to see whether it also covers UC. I for one would be interested to see whether there was any correlation there too.
Posted 11/10/2015 3:07 PM (GMT 0)
Good read, thanks for posting.

I'm convinced that a protocol to kill MAP will help a good percentage of people diagnosed with IBD (including UC) although currently, the focus is on Crohn's only. There are probably a number of other pathogens also responsible for damaging the mucosa (and depot tissue), which is the only reason why anti-MAP protocols don't work for all sufferers.

At least stuff like this is being taken more seriously now. The Crohn's vaccine struggled for years to get their initial funding (which I think was only about £300,000) whereas anti-inflammatories tend to get millions in funding all year round.
Posted 11/10/2015 7:09 PM (GMT 0)
Just FYI- I've sent in my blood samples to be tested for MAP (thanks to Canada Mark) for hooking me up. My GI is very supportive but won't prescribe antibiotics until the test comes back positive. Should know preliminary results in about a month, with follow up in 3.
Posted 11/10/2015 8:15 PM (GMT 0)
The MAP vaccine for CD has been quite the hot topic lately (lots of articles and youtube symposiums explaining it very well) here's just one link in regards to those that have UC....

From the link...

4. Will the Vaccine help Ulcerative Colitis?
‘Pure’ Ulcerative Colitis (UC) is a different disease to Crohn's, even though many of the symptoms are similar. It is not caused by MAP but is thought to be an auto-immune disease, the trigger for which is still unknown. Crohn’s Disease is caused by MAP infection in a genetically susceptible individual. The latest diagnostic techniques detect MAP in approaching 100% of Crohn's patients. You can, however, get MAP superinfection in someone with UC, making the UC worse. It is also well-known that diagnostic uncertainty is a big problem in Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD)... so in someone mistakenly diagnosed with UC when it is actually Crohn's disease, MAP will be the cause. If you have UC, there are 3 ways in which the Vaccine could help:
It is pure UC. Anti-MAP vaccination would protect against secondary MAP infection.
It is UC but superimposed MAP infection is making it worse. Anti-MAP vaccination should improve symptoms.
It looks like UC but it is actually Crohn’s. The vaccine is designed to fix it...and if it works in humans as it does in cattle, it should do so.
The new MAP test currently being developed is a simple, smart test which can be done on blood samples or routine gut biopsies. It is highly accurate and quantitative and will help to dispel this kind of diagnostic uncertainty in IBD.

Here's the link where the above came from...

http://crohnsmapvaccine.com/faq/
Posted 11/10/2015 8:17 PM (GMT 0)
Keep in mind, those that are on biologic's with their CD may not show MAP in their system as the biologic's seem to "hide" the MAP infection, doesn't mean it's not there though.
Posted 11/10/2015 8:25 PM (GMT 0)

pb4 said...
Keep in mind, those that are on biologic's with their CD may not show MAP in their system as the biologic's seem to "hide" the MAP infection, doesn't mean it's not there though.

Oh sugar. Did not know that. Although I did mention to the doc doing the testing.
Posted 11/10/2015 8:28 PM (GMT 0)

U B Tough said...

pb4 said...
Keep in mind, those that are on biologic's with their CD may not show MAP in their system as the biologic's seem to "hide" the MAP infection, doesn't mean it's not there though.

Oh sugar. Did not know that. Although I did mention to the doc doing the testing.

Yup! Unfortunately...taken from FAQ number 10 from the link I posted in my earlier reply to the OP....

Immunosuppressants used to treat Crohn’s Disease include Azathioprine, Methotrexate and 6-Mercaptopurine as well as the newer ‘biological’ or ‘anti-TNF’ agents Infliximab (Remicade) and Adalimumab (Humira). If these were given to someone with an infection like tuberculosis, they would make the disease worse. Hence checking for latent (inactive) TB is an essential precaution before giving biological agents. So it’s not unreasonable to presume that the same would happen with immunosuppressants and MAP. But as so often with MAP, it turns out to be the opposite of what you would expect...

In the case of Azathioprine, Methotrexate and 6-Mercaptopurine, independent research by 2 groups in the USA has shown that all three of these drugs have a direct anti-MAP action1,2. They do not kill MAP but they do retard its growth and activity. Some of the benefit from these drugs is probably due to this slow anti-MAP action and is one of the reasons they take 2-3 months to work in Crohn’s disease.

TNF-alpha (tumour necrosis factor alpha) is a protein produced by cells of the immune system, to help fight infections by temporarily increasing inflammation in the affected area. The anti-TNF agents work by binding to TNF-alpha anchored on the surface of inflammatory cells involved in the Crohn’s disease inflammation. This results in the death of some of the inflammatory cells, many of which will be harbouring MAP bacteria which are likely to be killed at the same time. For this reason, treatment with anti-TNF drugs has a significant anti-MAP action too
Posted 11/10/2015 8:57 PM (GMT 0)
thanks pb4 - will forward the link to my GI and the Dr. doing the testing and see what they say. I'm actually hoping to test positive. At least then I'll have an answer and hopefully a viable treatment. I have a great team of docs but I'm getting tired of them saying "I don't know."
Posted 11/10/2015 11:08 PM (GMT 0)

pb4 said...
The MAP vaccine for CD has been quite the hot topic lately (lots of articles and youtube symposiums explaining it very well) here's just one link in regards to those that have UC....

From the link...

.... Crohn’s Disease is caused by MAP infection in a genetically susceptible individual. The latest diagnostic techniques detect MAP in approaching 100% of Crohn's patients. .....
Here's the link where the above came from...

http://crohnsmapvaccine.com/faq/

But I call bull on this.

While there are studies underway to see if preventing MAP infection can prevent CD, or if treating MAP can cure CD, IT IS STILL UNKNOWN.

This bull website is claiming it is KNOWN 100% - bull, bull, and did I mention bull.

Form the article you linked:

"Whilst the presence of viable MAP infection in IBD is thus not disputed, the evidence for MAP as a primary causative agent remains inconclusive with the possibility remaining that MAP presence represents secondary invasion as a result of an inflamed gut mucosal barrier selectively increasing permeability, or the indirect inability of CD macrophages to neutralize and clear these particular bacilli."
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply