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New mesalamine mechanism found

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Posted 1/24/2017 5:25 PM (GMT 0)
You will notice that in many packaged foods they might have phosphoric acid or some phosphate salt added.
Makes you wonder if feeding the bacteria too much phosphate, or does it not matter, they will
get it anyway.
For instance baking powder contains calcium monophosphate.
Have to look into this a bit, see where it might go.
Old Mike

this is not the only mechanism but a new found one.
www.ns.umich.edu/new/releases/24475-u-m-researchers-discover-what-makes-drug-for-ulcerative-colitis-tick

tnf at it again, if you cant absorb it then it I suspect gets to the colon
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19196948

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 1/31/2017 7:07:58 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 1/24/2017 7:33 PM (GMT 0)
Interesting read.

So it only took them 70 years to figure out the underlying biochemical mechanism of how one of the very, very oldest UC medications works: Mesalamine. Great, I guess i'll be waiting another 70 for the cure...
Posted 1/24/2017 10:58 PM (GMT 0)
meds with ancient herbal roots often are used because they work without being completely sure all the ways and whys of how they work.

we don't full understand why aspirin works, so not surprising 5-ASA (same family) not fully understood.

I think they know several ways is does or is theorized to help.

Progress is not linear so 70 years for new mechanism does not imply 70 years for cure - if anything it is exponential and it means 7 years.
Posted 1/25/2017 1:19 PM (GMT 0)
What's one phosphate between friends.
What I find of interest here is the statement.

Bosch (2013) proposed a provocative hypothesis that challenges the prevailing view that immune systems have evolved exclusively to control invading pathogens. Instead, Bosch suggests that immune systems evolved because of the need to control the resident beneficial microbes.

Old Mike
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S193131281400465X
Posted 1/26/2017 12:12 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks for posting OM, really interesting. Going to have to read more when awake but briefly scanned this article
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3383012/Polyphosphate: an ancient molecule that links platelets, coagulation, and inflammation which got me thinking too about the high incidence of blood clots in patients with UC and that the cause has not been agreed on https://thrombosisjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12959-015-0044-2

..and aspirin of course has blood thinning properties https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9263351
Posted 1/30/2017 6:42 AM (GMT 0)
So just so I understand, the mesalamine weakens a certain bacteria's ability to produce polyphosphate making it difficult for bacteria to colonize. Because there's little to none of these certain microorganisms the immune system doesn't have anything to attack in the colon, therefore the overactive immune response never gets triggered preventing us from getting into a flare.

Very interesting. I wonder why some people are unable to maintain remission while on mesalamine. Perhaps there are other bacteria that don't need polyphosphate to survive and that triggers our immune systems.
Posted 1/30/2017 5:41 PM (GMT 0)
Probably because in those patients, the autoimmune reaction of attack doesn't take a hint to stop and allow the colon to switch into healing mode.

q
Posted 1/31/2017 12:52 PM (GMT 0)
Or maybe mesalamine works for those with UC where dysbiosis is the cause of the UC. and maybe it doesn't work in those where there's a wholly different cause. Many have speculated that UC is a cluster of symptoms with potentially differing causes...
Posted 4/5/2017 3:07 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you for posting this, Mike. It was fascinating !
Posted 4/5/2017 4:38 PM (GMT 0)

FSLondon said...
Or maybe mesalamine works for those with UC where dysbiosis is the cause of the UC. and maybe it doesn't work in those where there's a wholly different cause. Many have speculated that UC is a cluster of symptoms with potentially differing causes...

exactly. like aspirin, there should also be a direct effect on inflammation, in addition to this indirect effect on gut microbes.

i think some uc more heavily involves dysbiosis and other uc more reaction to self-antigens
Posted 4/5/2017 11:50 PM (GMT 0)
I've wondered about this a lot, too (dysbiosis and such). I am a late-bloomer to UC. Had no gut issues all my life except constant problems with constipation from the time i was a child until I developed diverticulitis in my late 50's. One bad year of that, finally got better and was fine for 3 years, and then 2015 came along. I was on and off antibiotics all year from that, and started taking a lot of probiotics. Finally had a colon resection to get rid of that nasty section of colon and was great for a year and a half, but kept on taking lots of probiotics (mainly Align). Then after a month of severe stress, the UC hit when I was 64. One doctor told me that sometimes after a colon resection, people develop UC or colitis. But I keep wondering if it was those probiotics. Maybe they weren't good ones, maybe contaminated, maybe full of all kinds of bacteria. Who knows. I guess one could wonder all one wants and still not have an answer. I can't say it was the antibiotics because I went a year and a half without any ... well except for the ones the dentist had me take for a bad tooth, come to think of it.

But I keep wishing for answers.
Posted 4/6/2017 12:12 AM (GMT 0)
FlowerGirl, that's a very interesting thought. I have never considered that the probiotics I am taking may be introducing something that could have a NEGATIVE impact.....wowzers.

In my case, I really do think the UC is dysbiosis related. I had a bout of what I thought was food poisoning a month before my first flare. I never went to the doctor about it, but assumed it was from some veggies I didn't wash well enough (I can get lazy sometimes).

In fact, I didn't even take my diagnosis seriously---despite it being confirmed by a colonoscopy, because in my mind this was all related to that infection. After researching and learning there is no confirmed ONE reason for this illness......I just thought "yep, I ingested bad bugs".

I am still under that impression even though I have no proof. I was under a great deal of stress for 2 years before this new flare after having been in "remission" for 7-8 years (my memory is preventing me from being specific). I wonder if the stress kills off the GOOD bacteria and leaves the bad ones to ravage things?

In any case, I am very grateful for this appendage to my perspective.....I am no longer worried about the pentasa and now think of it as being wonderful smile
Posted 4/6/2017 12:26 AM (GMT 0)
Yes, stress was definitely the trigger for me. I was dealing with my mom's late-stage dementia and so depressed about seeing her in that state. The last 6 months I was crying all the time but kept telling myself to buck up and take it, that I was only the one watching, not the one suffering. I should have gone to the doctor and got on antidepressants (I knew I should, but was determined to be "strong"--big mistake!). And then the last month of her life, well. Let's just say the stress was off the charts for the last 3 weeks. And 3 weeks after that I wake up with bloody diarrhea. Easy to connect the dots. Not so easy to understand the whole mechanism of why, though.
Posted 4/6/2017 1:41 AM (GMT 0)
I'm so sorry you had to experience that Flowergirl. That is very much like what caused my flare. I lost my mom and dad both to different forms of cancer within 6 months of each other and handled it much the same as you. Watching the decline of them both was so stressful, and I suppressed a lot of it. I didn't mean to and at the time felt I was doing the best I could.

I guess stress changes the micro biome, too. Is it a case of bad bacteria being immune to stress and the good ones not----or the gut/brain axis they speak about---or simply a genetic quirk in the immune system----or a combo of many? who knows.

My aunt has Crohn's and my mom had diverticultis, so digestive issues run in the family.......
Posted 4/6/2017 4:59 AM (GMT 0)
I,m so sorry for your loss too,Katie. How unbelievably depressing and sad to lose them both like that. And so close together! So much stress!

And then UC comes as such a lovely reward! --NOT!!!!!

Where's,our magic pill when we need it? Until then we cope as best we can.
Posted 4/6/2017 4:16 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you, Flowergirl......I am actually doing really well these days and feel very upbeat and grateful.
Posted 4/8/2017 12:36 AM (GMT 0)
Flowergirl, I also developed UC after colon resection. I had bowel issues since my 20s but diverticulitis. The biopsies showed no UC in the resectioned piece. Three months later I had a terrible flare at 63. I think my immune system couldnt shut off after the healing process. Still hasnt. Two years later and struggling. Also maybe helped by the antibiotics I was on for months because of the diverticulitis before surgery. I never took probiotics much before hand. No real stress, I was actually on vacation for those three months.
Posted 4/8/2017 4:34 AM (GMT 0)
Wow... sounds like my same story, minus the stress. I had several colonoscopies for the diverticulitis and yep, no UC ever showed up, just the diverticulitis. I also had lots of bladder infections during the same time -- often wondered if the Diverticulits and UTIs were connected somehow.
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