Ulcerative Colitis a pre existing condition according to Trump & the Repugs

You said sick people don't make productive members of society and he pointed to two severely sick people who were extremely productive. There are also people with IBD who have made great contributions to society.

These conversations blow my mind.

Everyone loves money, and if you had more money too and could afford it I guarantee you'd start switching sides and would stop caring quite as much about this issue....I have no issue at all with my healthcare, but that's because I have a good job that I got with putting in time and effort into my education. I guarantee you if you went to school to be an engineer you probably have 0 problems.

Also, once you force doctors to take paycuts there will be a lot less doctors to treat you. There's already a shortage of doctors. Guarantee doctors prefer dealing with an insurance company a lot more than the government....

And pointing out Europes socialist system is also not quite right. If you look at Europe's education system you'd understand why all that works. In Europe there is no "no child left behind" bs for people who don't care to go to school. in Germany for example, if you don't care to go to school or put forward poor effort there's a chance you're done with school after 9th grade (3 of my cousins) and you work full time for the rest of your life and get an apprenticeship somewhere. 10th grade (2 of my cousins) and you do the same, go to some sort of trait school. And only if you pass 13 grades (which you need a certain GPA to even get the chance to attempt) and pass a huge test you can even have the chance to go to college.....that's why college is "free". The same principle probably applies to their healthcare.

At the end of the day, money makes the world go around and someone needs to make money to pay for everybody else who's in it for the free ride. Putting in all the effort for wanting change and trying to better your opportunities without a free handout may be better served in the long run.

Bull101 said...
These conversations blow my mind.

Everyone loves money, and if you had more money too and could afford it I guarantee you'd start switching sides and would stop caring quite as much about this issue....I have no issue at all with my healthcare, but that's because I have a good job that I got with putting in time and effort into my education. I guarantee you if you went to school to be an engineer you probably have 0 problems.

Also, once you force doctors to take paycuts there will be a lot less doctors to treat you. There's already a shortage of doctors. Guarantee doctors prefer dealing with an insurance company a lot more than the government....

And pointing out Europes socialist system is also not quite right. If you look at Europe's education system you'd understand why all that works. In Europe there is no "no child left behind" bs for people who don't care to go to school. in Germany for example, if you don't care to go to school or put forward poor effort there's a chance you're done with school after 9th grade (3 of my cousins) and you work full time for the rest of your life and get an apprenticeship somewhere. 10th grade (2 of my cousins) and you do the same, go to some sort of trait school. And only if you pass 13 grades (which you need a certain GPA to even get the chance to attempt) and pass a huge test you can even have the chance to go to college.....that's why college is "free". The same principle probably applies to their healthcare.

At the end of the day, money makes the world go around and someone needs to make money to pay for everybody else who's in it for the free ride. Putting in all the effort for wanting change and trying to better your opportunities without a free handout may be better served in the long run.

I see both sides really... and I see the problem.

The harder I work, the more I achieve, the less i want to give up a piece, & trust me I give TONS of my mediocre wages already - I know too many who do nothing, don't try, and feel entitled (not speaking of disabled of course). I am tired and I work too much myself... I want to relax, I want to stop someday. I see how this goes: When you have nothing, you want everything handed to you. When you begin to have something, you feel like you deserve to keep what you've worked for. Young people are typically starting out, so they have very little, and of course ideally, they want everyone to be guaranteed everything. The other side of the coin is that we can't make it any harder for individuals to put a penny in their pocket. Young people don't stay young forever, eventually, they too will want a nest egg. Is there anything wrong with that?

I give you a lot of credit for speaking your mind Bull. Most people want to come off as "I want everyone to give everything to everyone" and people with alternative views don't speak up, so it ends up looking like everyone wants the same thing, when the truth is, they don't. The country is very divided.

Most people want to come off as "I want everyone to give everything to everyone"

In the UK, trust me, nobody makes the slightest pretence at this. From the Conservatives it's been all take, take, take off the poorest and most vulnerable members of society, and nobody bats an eyelid at this or is putt off voting for them for a moment. Meanwhile, Labour put out a reasonably sensible manifesto and the right-wing media go hysterical about it, particularly the Daily Heil which has prime ministers, no less, eating out of its hand. I'm also uttterly sick of people on benefits being characteristed as grasping, drunken, lazy no-gooders. It's an insult to me, it's an insult to my best friend who is a carer to her blind husband, it's an insult to all carers and people who are on benefits through otherwise no fault of their own.

The rich have been screwing the poor for as long as there have been rich and poor. Some things never change.

There's a lot of truth to what you say. Too little have too much. I personally don't care about stuff, I just want to retire someday. I don't have children, in hope that it may be possible one day, but even without, it looks less and less hopeful all the time. If the very rich paid more, it would help a lot. Me paying more is just making it so I work till I die.

Bull101 said...
These conversations blow my mind.

Everyone loves money, and if you had more money too and could afford it I guarantee you'd start switching sides and would stop caring quite as much about this issue....I have no issue at all with my healthcare, but that's because I have a good job that I got with putting in time and effort into my education. I guarantee you if you went to school to be an engineer you probably have 0 problems.

Also, once you force doctors to take paycuts there will be a lot less doctors to treat you. There's already a shortage of doctors. Guarantee doctors prefer dealing with an insurance company a lot more than the government....

And pointing out Europes socialist system is also not quite right. If you look at Europe's education system you'd understand why all that works. In Europe there is no "no child left behind" bs for people who don't care to go to school. in Germany for example, if you don't care to go to school or put forward poor effort there's a chance you're done with school after 9th grade (3 of my cousins) and you work full time for the rest of your life and get an apprenticeship somewhere. 10th grade (2 of my cousins) and you do the same, go to some sort of trait school. And only if you pass 13 grades (which you need a certain GPA to even get the chance to attempt) and pass a huge test you can even have the chance to go to college.....that's why college is "free". The same principle probably applies to their healthcare.

At the end of the day, money makes the world go around and someone needs to make money to pay for everybody else who's in it for the free ride. Putting in all the effort for wanting change and trying to better your opportunities without a free handout may be better served in the long run.

So you guarantee I should have been an engineer and you guarantee the way doctors think.

Here's my guarantee: the world is changing, and you can choose to count your money and act superior for having earned it if you want. I promise I'll be working to stop the exploitation of the sick, poor, minority and working class until I can't move. Until then, I suppose I'll kick myself for not choosing the 'guaranteed' freedom I'd have been afforded if only my 17 year old brain could have known that becoming and engineer is the key to happiness.

How can healthcare be free? That truly would be amazing.

"Material things make me happy as sin"

That's because they were created, most likely sinfully, on the backs of third world laborers who couldn't dream of the type of wealth you are describing. That this hypocrisy is not only lost on you, but something you choose to double down on and look at as "human nature" is really something.

If you aren't willing to chip in an extra ~1% of your income (or "wealth") to help the betterment of society through healthcare and welfare programs, then I suggest you stop utilizing everything the public funds everywhere. I can all but GUARANTEE you personally wouldn't be able to live your life without a tax funded infrastructure/society.

It's tough to be accurate when we paint with a big brush as both sides exagerate to make their point. Are there abusers, absolutely, but not nearly as many as talked about. Will doctors refuse patients if they're paid less, a few perhaps but they still need to make a living unless they're going to suddenly sweep floors. It'd be nice if there was no greed and corruption but that's an impossible dream as its everywhere. Politics has always been ugly and nasty, and the poor have always been taken advantage of by the rich. It's better than hundreds of years ago but the deck is still rigged. I have no desire to be rich, just a desire not to poop my pants, and live simply and happily.

NiceCupOfTea said...
Well I can certainly understand why you're happy to be free of doctors and associated medical costs. Can you put the money you would have paid for meds, doctor visits, etc. into a pension pot instead? I dunno how retirement works in the US, sorry, but I certainly don't blame you one little bit for not wanting to work until the day you die :-/

hehe, it's cute that you care. I do put money aside, but you really need a ton to stop working. A few 1000 a year doesn't do much in the big picture. I try to build savings, and work, work work, so hopefully some day, before I keel over, I can relax a bit. I feel like I need a long vacation, and that will make me less whiny, but who can afford the time off? it's hard, especially as a single, childless woman, I make less money, pay higher taxes, don't use public programs.

My job provides me with insurance. Sometimes when people say they need this or that, I think, "get a different job" or "change career paths". That's exactly what I did, I changed careers and got a different job. It took a long time, but eventually I found one with a decent insurance plan.

Not having the health stuff looming is certainly a huge weight off my back. I don't have a family to support me... no one's going to pay my bills... I am not going to inherit a penny...

In the US, you have to save to retire, very few companies offer pensions. Many corporate jobs offer 401k, investment accounts, but there are no guarantees - you pay into it, and it's usually pretax, but I believe you pay tax when you take it out & markets go up and down. Some people use their home as an investment. Once you get older, you can get social security through the government. That money is money you've paid in throughout your working career. There is also medicare for older people's insurance, but here, if you're young and capable, you need to be working, otherwise you won't get social security (unless you marry someone who paid in - you can get theirs after they pass).

Bull101 said...
One of my angriest moments (same principle but not healthcare related) was when I saw a family on food stamps use food stamps to buy the essentials, then use their own cash to buy a 4 pack of monster energy drinks while having a full sleeve tattoo. Obviously you can afford things, you just choose not to afford the right things. And way too many have that mind set, hence why I'll try to keep my money as much as possible and try to cover myself.

This is like the argument I once saw popularly championed on Fox News that people on welfare shouldn't own microwaves or refrigerators. Who are you to tell them what they should or shouldn't spend money on?

If they've taken care of the essentials with their food stamps, are you really bothered that they try to take whatever is left over and try to enjoy their lives? They're on WELFARE, it's not as if they're taking trips to Prague and using their EBT card to upgrade to first class.

sfc425 said...

Bull101 said...
One of my angriest moments (same principle but not healthcare related) was when I saw a family on food stamps use food stamps to buy the essentials, then use their own cash to buy a 4 pack of monster energy drinks while having a full sleeve tattoo. Obviously you can afford things, you just choose not to afford the right things. And way too many have that mind set, hence why I'll try to keep my money as much as possible and try to cover myself.

This is like the argument I once saw popularly championed on Fox News that people on welfare shouldn't own microwaves or refrigerators. Who are you to tell them what they should or shouldn't spend money on?

If they've taken care of the essentials with their food stamps, are you really bothered that they try to take whatever is left over and try to enjoy their lives? They're on WELFARE, it's not as if they're taking trips to Prague and using their EBT card to upgrade to first class.

Meanwhile in another topic on another board a few days ago a middle-class guy #humblebragged about spending £400 on drinks in pubs last month. Yes, it's his own money. That family on food stamps were also using their own money. Why are poor people expected to live like saints, but middle class people can have as many vices as they like?