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Posted 3/22/2020 4:53 AM (GMT 0)
Deepest condolences CC 😐
q
Posted 3/22/2020 7:58 AM (GMT 0)
In the Netherlands people are supposed to keep 1.5 meter distance from each other and work from home, so what do they do? They pack themselves on the trains to go to the beach, and take the whole family to the garden centre or DIY store. Honestly sometimes I despair of humanity.

Anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal please follow what's happening in Italy. They say we are a couple of weeks behind italy. When the hospitals run out of resources the death rate is pretty high...
Posted 3/22/2020 12:50 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks, Quincy

CGK -- you sound like a "few hundred thousand" deaths is no big deal. What about several million hospitalizations that will break our health care system? Does that concern you? That several million would just be for Covid 19. What will happen to all the other patients who required hospitalization pre-Covid? Heart attacks, cancer, car accidents, child births, severe UC flares etc etc?

This is an extremely big deal.
Posted 3/22/2020 1:12 PM (GMT 0)

Somebody said...
My brother lives in South Korea and says their health care system is far superior to ours here.

That may be true but from what I can see that isn't apparent from the way the U.S. has so far managed this pandemic. South Korea and the U.S. had their first case diagnosed on the same day. S. Korea has so far reported 102 deaths from Covid-19. The U.S. has almost 7 times the population of S. Korea but so far only around 300 deaths are attributed to the disease.

IMO the U.S. is managing this outbreak as well anybody. Perhaps President Trump's 'xenophobia' had something to do with it:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/19/neither-biden-nor-sanders-would-have-saved-american-lives-with-travel-bans-like-trump-did/
"There is no way a President Biden or Sanders would have gone against the academic models’ conclusion to leave open travel from China — but Trump did, and saved countless lives in doing so.

"On Jan. 31, 2020, the Trump administration announced that foreign nationals who had traveled to China in the past 14 days would be denied entry into the United States. At the time, the virus — which originated in the Wuhan province — had begun to spread uncontrollably throughout the communist nation. Trump’s China travel ban reduced arrivals from the hotspot to the United States by 90 percent and “prevent[ed] more cases from China coming into the United States.”
Posted 3/22/2020 1:42 PM (GMT 0)

C_G_K said...

Uniform Charlie said...
still people who have not quite grasped what is happening

What exactly do you think is happening or will happen?

I see the potential for a few hundred thousand deaths in the United States as a worst case scenario. That assumes that the quarantines won't have any effect, that warm weather won't have any effect, that no vaccine will be available in the next year, and that no viable treatments with existing drugs (like hydroxychloroquine) will emerge in the next year. In other words, that level of mortality is unlikely as everything would have to go wrong.


-----------------------------------



When someone you know dies, do you tell everyone that they shouldn't be upset because it's only one person?

I am most concerned with my local area which now has the most cases in the country. I also have elderly parents and friends with preexisting conditions and am on the front lines dealing with this virus with little to no protective equipment. Perhaps you and I have different perspectives.

Post Edited (Uniform Charlie) : 3/22/2020 8:03:59 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/22/2020 1:47 PM (GMT 0)
Right now I don't particularly care how this started in the US or the appalling lack of any action (other than shutting out select foreigners) for well over a month. All that can be investigated and debated at another time. What I am concerned with is what is happening now.

The absolute number one priority should be to get health care workers the proper PPEs they need to protect themselves and to keep them from spreading the virus to their patients and families. I have a friend in California who is a nurse in the ICU. They have been told that due to a lack of proper equipment they should wear bandanas!! Appalling! The government should order manufacturers to rapidly re-tool and get production moving so that proper masks, including N95 masks as well as surgical masks, start getting distributed within the next 7 days. It's entirely possible with the will to do so. If China can build a hospital in a week, why can't we produce masks???

I am so tired of the white house briefing being mostly about how great the president is handling things and really want to see more actions!
Posted 3/22/2020 1:56 PM (GMT 0)

IamCurious said...

IMO the U.S. is managing this outbreak as well anybody. Perhaps President Trump's 'xenophobia' had something to do with it:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/19/neither-biden-nor-sanders-would-have-saved-american-lives-with-travel-bans-like-trump-did/

So Xenophobia is better than science, test kits, and preparedness? I’m not surprised that you read the Federalist.
Posted 3/22/2020 2:12 PM (GMT 0)
So Xenophobia is better than science, test kits, and preparedness?

Thanks to globalization over the past 20 years over 90 percent of our pharmaceuticals are produced outside of the U.S. (not to mention over 95 percent of our antibiotics).

China has issued a veiled threat to halt shipping pharmaceuticals to the U.S. If xenophobia allows us to be less vulnerable from these threats then I am all for xenophobia:

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/20/policymakers-worry-china-drug-exports-088126
“We are at the mercy of others when it comes to computer chips, but we are the world’s largest exporter of raw materials for vitamins and antibiotics,” Li Daokui, a professor of economics at Tsinghua University, said in March 2019 while speaking at the National People’s Conference.
“Should we reduce the exports, the medical systems of some western countries will not run well,” he added...

a single factory in China made the active pharmaceutical ingredient for a common blood pressure medicine, valsartan, that was found to contain a cancer-causing chemical that has been used to make liquid rocket fuel.

Post Edited (IamCurious) : 3/22/2020 8:16:56 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/22/2020 2:28 PM (GMT 0)

iPoop said...
Let's not get too political here.

Politicians were warned about the Coronavirus and ignored the warnings other than to sell their stocks and warn their friends & donors ahead of the downturn in the markets.

How can we not address the elephant in the room (politics) when it comes to IBDs? IBD patients are at the highest risks other than 80+ year olds for the coronavirus. We will not be able to go to our doctors’ offices for visits, no scopes, we take high risk meds to treat our IBDs. Clinical trials and new drug development will be set back years because of this virus and the horrible decisions that our Federal Government has made so far.

I will do my part and stay home as recommended by medical professionals.
Posted 3/22/2020 2:29 PM (GMT 0)

CCinPA said...
Right now I don't particularly care how this started in the US or the appalling lack of any action (other than shutting out select foreigners) for well over a month. All that can be investigated and debated at another time. What I am concerned with is what is happening now.

The absolute number one priority should be to get health care workers the proper PPEs they need to protect themselves and to keep them from spreading the virus to their patients and families. I have a friend in California who is a nurse in the ICU. They have been told that due to a lack of proper equipment they should wear bandanas!! Appalling! The government should order manufacturers to rapidly re-tool and get production moving so that proper masks, including N95 masks as well as surgical masks, start getting distributed within the next 7 days. It's entirely possible with the will to do so. If China can build a hospital in a week, why can't we produce masks???

I am so tired of the white house briefing being mostly about how great the president is handling things and really want to see more actions!


_______________________________


We have been issued 1 N95 mask and been told "re-use and use sparingly." This creates a near-impossible decision-making process on even the most routine daily interactions with the public since people with the virus don't magically turn another color to tell you they have it.

The planning process at the moment is figuring out how to maintain our citywide emergency services if, say, 1/3 to 1/2 of the paramedics, firefighters, nurses, doctors, and/or police officers are quarantined. Who takes over what job? What potential exposure level constitutes someone needing to self-quarantine when we are already short on emergency personnel? How many hours can we ask people to work in a high risk/high stress environment when we know fatigue combined with direct exposure is a risk factor for a more serious case of COVID 19, especially considering we don't have proper protective equipment? All of these decisions are being made blindly due to lack of proper data. It is incredibly difficult to see a doctor right now and they still have strict rules on who can get tested.

Edited to add:

It's not all doom and gloom. The numbers from Washington State are beginning to look better. The next few days will be important to see how well their measures are working.
Posted 3/22/2020 2:38 PM (GMT 0)

IamCurious said...
So Xenophobia is better than science, test kits, and preparedness?

Thanks to globalization over the past 20 years over 90 percent of our pharmaceuticals are produced outside of the U.S. (not to mention over 95 percent of our antibiotics).

China has issued a veiled threat to halt shipping pharmaceuticals to the U.S. If xenophobia allows us to be less vulnerable from these threats then I am all for xenophobia:

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/20/policymakers-worry-china-drug-exports-088126
“We are at the mercy of others when it comes to computer chips, but we are the world’s largest exporter of raw materials for vitamins and antibiotics,” Li Daokui, a professor of economics at Tsinghua University, said in March 2019 while speaking at the National People’s Conference.
“Should we reduce the exports, the medical systems of some western countries will not run well,” he added...

a single factory in China made the active pharmaceutical ingredient for a common blood pressure medicine, valsartan, that was found to contain a cancer-causing chemical that has been used to make liquid rocket fuel.

Cool non-answer.
Posted 3/22/2020 2:55 PM (GMT 0)
There is never a place for xenophobia. Ever. Anywhere.
:'(
Posted 3/22/2020 2:59 PM (GMT 0)
Don't get the thread locked. Thank you.
Posted 3/22/2020 3:30 PM (GMT 0)

poopydoop said...
There is never a place for xenophobia. Ever. Anywhere.
:'(

I agree 100%, but now is not the time for political correctness either. That bugs me just as much, because both cause us to not see things as they really are.

CCinPA said...
CGK -- you sound like a "few hundred thousand" deaths is no big deal.(

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. What I was obviously saying is that there could be a large number of deaths if our mitigation efforts don't work. I am optimistic that they will. That should be good news right?

Trump has the power to repurpose civilian manufacturing to create things necessary for our mitigation efforts. This power should be used to create the PPE's that our healthcare workers need. Possibly ventilators too. Hoarding and theft is a problem apparently, but making masks, gloves and ventilators is not freaking rocket science, even if almost all the manufacturing of these items has been done overseas recently.
Posted 3/22/2020 3:52 PM (GMT 0)

C_G_K said...

I agree 100%, but now is not the time for political correctness either. That bugs me just as much, because both cause us to not see things as they really are


Thanks, I am a bit sensitive to the topic, being a foreigner/immigrant in my host country
Posted 3/22/2020 4:16 PM (GMT 0)

poopydoop said...

being a foreigner/immigrant in my host country

I am also a foreigner/immigrant in my host country. I got my American citizenship about a week and a half ago. I am now a citizen of the two best countries in the world (IMHO), United States and Canada, where I was born. I feel very fortunate.

I had an experience years ago that really shook me. I intervened in an attack on my Sikh neighbor by a bunch of thugs, and almost got myself killed. Luckily at the time I was a very fast runner!! Since that day, racism and xenophobia have been more concrete to me, and I get emotional just thinking about the injustice of it.
Posted 3/22/2020 5:26 PM (GMT 0)
CJK --- lower deaths would definitely be good news! Sorry for reading you incorrectly
Posted 3/22/2020 5:36 PM (GMT 0)
CC in PA - sorry about your Mom. It's never easy, even when it's expected, and I'm sure the added stress is not helping you. <virtual hug>

I am a Canadian who is resident in the US. Just talked to a friend in Ottawa who said things are relatively normal there, no hoarding. Here on the other hand (which is Maryland) I tried to order groceries for delivery from Safeway and they just called and said there's no point as they have no meat, no milk, no cheese, no bread.... So it looks like we have to venture out. I am going to go early and hope there is not a line already.... It's a little ridiculous though. Two weeks ago there was too much food, and now this? *** people (and I don't mean you all, just people in general)
Posted 3/22/2020 6:10 PM (GMT 0)

tiredofallthispoop said...
no meat, no milk, no cheese, no bread....

A lot of stores are setting aside a few hours in the morning for seniors and people that are immunocompromised (i.e. us).

I believe Costco does this on Tuesdays and Thursdays between 8 and 9. I'll be heading down there on Tuesday to get some meat and TP.
Posted 3/22/2020 6:29 PM (GMT 0)
I live in a large city & all of the stores are allowing seniors to come in & shop for items an hour early. The 24 hour stores are closing & restocking at night too. Also, they are restricting the amounts people can buy. Hopefully with these new adjustments it will make things more available & help tamp down the panic buying.

I suggest using google in your area to see what your local stores are doing.
Posted 3/22/2020 7:01 PM (GMT 0)

C_G_K said...

I am also a foreigner/immigrant in my host country. I got my American citizenship about a week and a half ago. I am now a citizen of the two best countries in the world (IMHO), United States and Canada, where I was born. I feel very fortunate.

I had an experience years ago that really shook me. I intervened in an attack on my Sikh neighbor by a bunch of thugs, and almost got myself killed. Luckily at the time I was a very fast runner!! Since that day, racism and xenophobia have been more concrete to me, and I get emotional just thinking about the injustice of it.

Completely off topic, I'm debating whether to get dutch citizenship but they don't allow dual nationality so I'd have to renounce my British citizenship. I'm not planning on going back any time soon but still, it's a tough decision. I applied for permanent residency today (when we were still in the EU i could live here without a visa).

Over here most of the stores ran out of eggs. But!! The organic supermarket still had plenty. I forget the name of the American one, there was a branch in high street Kensington in London...that place that makes you feel terrible about yourself haha for not living wholesome enough...whole foods? anyway, the Dutch version of that (ekoplaza) still had eggs, and indeed everything else...
Posted 3/22/2020 10:10 PM (GMT 0)
Love the description of Whole Foods. It changed a lot when Amazon bought it out, and not for the better imho. Lots of hard to find things disappeared altogether.
Posted 3/22/2020 10:13 PM (GMT 0)
I can’t figure out why all our local stores — even online — are out of flour and baking supplies. Either every single person is baking every day or someone is buying it all out!!!
Posted 3/22/2020 10:17 PM (GMT 0)
I almost bought some from King Arthur flours directly about a week ago but balked at the shipping charges. They are all sold out now too.
Posted 3/22/2020 10:27 PM (GMT 0)

FlowersGal said...
I can’t figure out why all our local stores — even online — are out of flour and baking supplies. Either every single person is baking every day or someone is buying it all out!!!

It’s a thing on social media, people are buying bread makers and trying it out while social distancing
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