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Booster Shots for the Immunosuppressed

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Posted 8/21/2021 10:11 AM (GMT 0)

ks1905 said...

I have never met an admitted antivaxxer in real life, they always say that they aren't antivaxxers followed by some reason like autism, mercury, fertility issues, unproven, yada yada yada about why they refuse vaccines.

Van is arguing that the 3rd dose is unproven for immunocompromised patients while he is currently vaccinated with zero doses. His plan is to hope for the future virus variants to weaken if/before he catches it. 95+% of the current hospitalized covid patients are not fully vaccinated and 99% of the deaths are from patients who aren't fully vaccinated.

I'd rather stick with science and statistics than hopes and luck for my future health.

I know a few... they say things like "natural immunity is better than vaccine induced immunity" (er...not if you're dead); "I'm fit and healthy so I have a strong immune system" (long covid *especially* doesn't care how fit and healthy you are); "these vaccines are experimental" (despite now having one of the best known side effect profiles due to being used by millions of people); "the long term effects are unknown" (that doesn't seem to bother smartphone users - remember when we were all going to get brain cancer from our mobile phones?); "vaccines lead to new variants" (remind me which of the current variants was caused by a vaccine, as opposed to say, mass uncontrolled viral transmission in a large population?); "long covid is just burnout and depression" (try telling that to my fitness-fanatic friend who was in bed for 6 weeks, could not exercise for 6 months without becoming breathless like an asthma attack, and is still unable to work full time after 16 months)

It's just hopeless and I'm so tired of it.

I went into my 3rd shot accepting that maybe I would flare afterwards (not that there is any scientific evidence for this at the moment) - because with colitis I will almost certainly flare eventually anyway - and the odds I will need surgery eventually are already about 50%. I didn't flare, and last time I checked I had a high level of covid antibodies which made it completely worth it.
Posted 8/21/2021 1:34 PM (GMT 0)
I'm scared to get a 3rd dose because the 2nd did make me flare badly, and I just got off steroids 5 weeks ago after being stuck on them for most of the past 3 years. No biologics worked for me until the Xeljanz I'm on now, so I don't have many options left. I thought I was going to need surgery until the past month or two. I also have covid antibodies from my first 2 Moderna doses (I know it's a little unclear how significant that even is but it gave me some relief). I work from home permanently and I still very rarely hang out with anyone except my new boyfriend (who also has UC and is also on Xeljanz!!). I still do grocery pick-up most the time. If I do have to go inside somewhere, I mask or double-mask and am not inside long. So, I think I'll wait to get the 3rd for now. I don't want to risk flaring again. I'm glad it is available for all of you though.
Posted 8/21/2021 8:09 PM (GMT 0)
I got Moderna booster at Publix in FL last Wed. 8/18. Publix had a form to fill out for 1st, 2nd or booster for Moderna and Pfizer. I was scheduled the next morning. They wanted my vax card to verify 1st 2 doses and to add date of booster. No Qs on immune deficiencies at all. No one there for any shot whatsoever except me. I take Humira but I also thought I read statement that ulcerative colitis and Hashimoto’s thyroiditis (I have H hypothyroidism) were included in booster eligibility. However, a biologic alone is enough.
Posted 8/21/2021 9:08 PM (GMT 0)
I am not sure if I qualify for the booster yet. I guess the way to tell would be to get the antibody test. Other than whatever effect autoimmune response gives me, I am not on meds; but should I catch the virus I have several comorbidities. My chief concern is that I work with groups of people who are not great at distancing.
I am appreciating this thread.Thanks everyone! OH, good to have that info. And hi to Keith - You were so helpful to me right after my pouch reversal.
Because of my work, I had my first dose in January and my second on February 10, so I should be able to get the booster fairly early in the general rollout anyway. In the meantime, I am careful and I have quite a collection of masks.
Posted 8/22/2021 4:14 PM (GMT 0)
Question for all of you relating to this third booster. I am about to go on Inflectra but I will have had both Pfizer vaccines before I do so. Will I have the same amount of protection as those getting vaccines who are not immunosuppressed? Or will being on Inflectra lessen my protection from covid? Will I need the third booster once I go on Inflectra?
Posted 8/22/2021 5:24 PM (GMT 0)
I think if you wait 2 weeks after your 2nd vaccine before starting inflectra you will build a normal immune response (because they say you have full protection 2 weeks after the 2nd shot). Inflectra won't reduce already-existing antibodies. Just sometimes reduces the ability to build new ones.
Posted 8/22/2021 7:24 PM (GMT 0)

ks1905 said...
You neglected to mention the known effects of Covid. There are 630K+ dead Americans and 80k currently in the hospital; strokes, heart attacks, pulmonary issues, erectile disfunction, loss of taste and smell are known side effects of covid infections, just saying.

As of today, doctors are starting to refuse treating covid patients who are not vaccinated. Beds and care are being prioritized for vaccinated patients who have been responsible and have a greater chance of survival.

Good luck to all the antivaxxers and antimaskers out there, you're going to need it. There are effective and safe vaccines out there, whether you believe the science or not.

Enough already with your logical fallacies. Just because I'm not talking about covid doesn't mean covid isn't a concern. That is the logical fallacy of exclusion.

I'm saying that if people are consenting to experimental vaccines then they need to be fully advised of the risks - ALL OF THE RISKS - so that their consent is fully informed. And that's not what's happening.

In order to pass emergency drug laws, the FDA had to prove that no pre-existing treatment was available. So they banned ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, a type of interferon, and myoclonal antibodies. Then they said, hey look! There are no treatments! Roll out the vaccine.

They are possibly guilty of letting hundreds of thousands of people die WITHOUT treatment when they could have been saved. Merck took ivermectin treatment off their website and not long after was given a $1.2 billion deal to come up with a new antiviral. Now they will roll out expensive, patent antivirals to replace the generic ones that they banned.

This is a crime against humanity and one day I hope these people pay.

So now, I will not take vaccines that carry potential risks that covid carries, or worse. I know people who have been personally injured by the vaccine. The VAERS and Yellow Card data from UK, even though they aren't yet verified, still represent almost 1 million potentially verified cases. That's insane! Normally in the U.S., 5 deaths creates a black box warning for a drug, and 50-200 the drug gets pulled from the market. There are at least 6,000 deaths in VAERS.

The booster shots have no real rationale. I watched the CDC press conference recently on their plan to unveil antivirals soon, as well as booster shots, and I had to turn it off. Their logic makes NO scientific sense. They are lying to our faces and people actually believe this non-sense. Their vaccine lacks long term efficacy so they're just going to keep rolling out booster after booster, while what? Locking down society over and over until people comply?

I'm not an anti-vaxer so cut the non-sense, please. I have taken over a dozen vaccines in my adult life. I won't take an experimental drug whose full effects are not known, period. I don't sign up for drug trials, so why would I volunteer for a drug with unknown long-term effects, one of which is possibly auto-immune!

So you can stop mischaracterizing me already. I won't fit into one of your neat little boxes. I have done a lot of verified research and there are many, many unanswered questions. I do know one thing for sure though, they have lied to us about covid treatments being ineffective. They have to in order to push emergency laws. It's criminal!

The only real option now is covid TREATMENT. The vaccine does not have long-term efficacy, all the data shows this. They have corralled the public into a vaccine-only solution and it's a LIE.

Post Edited (VanJordan) : 8/22/2021 1:27:12 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/22/2021 7:30 PM (GMT 0)
By the way, here is the data on Ivermectin:
https://ivmmeta.com/

86% effective as prophylaxis, 72% effective for treatment.

This is a crime against humanity!
Posted 8/22/2021 9:25 PM (GMT 0)

VanJordan said...
The vaccine does not have long-term efficacy, all the data shows this. They have corralled the public into a vaccine-only solution and it's a LIE.

I, and there may be many others who agree with you, but it is counter productive to post that. (It may be interpreted as inflammatory and it would be a shame to see a well-read poster like yourself kicked off the forum.) People are really afraid and will do whatever authorities say is in their best interest. If they haven't made up their minds about therapeutics by now then there is nothing you can say that will change that.

People are really afraid and are looking for guidance from the science experts who are in a position of authority right now. I don't blame them but the truth will come out sooner or later. The good news is that Fauci and Gates don't have the same influence with the rest of the world as they have here in the U.S.

One of the reasons the per capita rate of infection and fatality in Sub-Saharan Africa has been so much lower than was expected at the start of the pandemic is because Africans routinely take hydroxychloroquine to prevent malaria.

Hydroxychloroquine is cheap and safe and seems to have excellent prophylactic properties against the COVID virus. Likewise, the drug Ivermectin, which is also cheap and safe, has had fantastic results in helping to mitigate a severe outbreak of the Delta variant of the virus in India.

In India, Ivermectin stopped COVID dead in its tracks. 61 studies incorporating about 23,000 people revealed as much as a 96% reduction in death by taking Ivermectin.
Posted 8/22/2021 9:54 PM (GMT 0)
In the USA it seems like some people's moon is still made of green cheese. / Old Hat (40+ yrs with left-sided UC; in remission taking Colazal)
Posted 8/22/2021 9:54 PM (GMT 0)
Ah, more conspiracy theories and pseudoscience.

I know it's a difficult concept for some people, but there is a world outside the US with independent governments and clinical trials, and vaccines being approved by independent regulatory bodies.

Here is a good summary of the status quo with ivermectin
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02081-w
Quote: It’s not yet possible to assess whether ivermectin works against COVID-19 because the data currently available are not of sufficiently high quality
Posted 8/22/2021 10:07 PM (GMT 0)
This thread has been for those contemplating the booster shot & the ones that has gotten. Lets keep the conversation on that path. If you do not want to get the vaccines or the booster that's your decision, but do not try to muddy the waters on this thread.
Posted 8/22/2021 11:20 PM (GMT 0)
This is my last post in this thread.

poopydoop said...
Ah, more conspiracy theories and pseudoscience.

You didn't look at the link I provided. It's all peer reviewed data.

Nice try calling me a conspiracy theorist who uses pseudoscience though. That is the cry of the willfully ignorant and uneducated who want to dismiss others because they are terrified of looking at real evidence.

You won't succeed at confusing people. I am posting relevant data so that people have informed consent about the vaccine. People like you want them to stay uninformed.

IVM works. Doctors everywhere as using it, flouting the CDC and FDA. They're also using it in other countries.

Keep drinking that koolaid.
Posted 8/23/2021 1:02 AM (GMT 0)

VanJordan said...
By the way, here is the data on Ivermectin:
https://ivmmeta.com/

86% effective as prophylaxis, 72% effective for treatment.

This is a crime against humanity!

I think you might have missed this on that link:
"While many treatments have some level of efficacy, they do not replace vaccines and other measures to avoid infection. "
Posted 8/23/2021 1:04 AM (GMT 0)

Old Hat said...
In the USA it seems like some people's moon is still made of green cheese. / Old Hat (40+ yrs with left-sided UC; in remission taking Colazal)

There was a serious mental health crisis in the US prior to Covid and since the pandemic it has put even more people over the edge with the stress and the disruption that it has caused to everyone’s lives. Alcohol, drug abuse, anger, stress, and vulnerability to snake oil salesmen and conspiracy theorists have increased over the past 18+ months.

There are safe and effective Covid vaccines and immunosuppressed patients should consider them. The FDA, CDC, medical associations and doctors are recommending the boosters for patients like us.
Posted 8/23/2021 1:19 AM (GMT 0)

HaleyA said...
Question for all of you relating to this third booster. I am about to go on Inflectra but I will have had both Pfizer vaccines before I do so. Will I have the same amount of protection as those getting vaccines who are not immunosuppressed? Or will being on Inflectra lessen my protection from covid? Will I need the third booster once I go on Inflectra?

Depending on the other medications that you were on prior to a Biological like steroids or 6-mp when you got both your vaccines, you’re probably pretty well covered with your immune response than us. Being on a biological when infected could stop some of the immune system’s Response with the cytokine storm that is killing some people. They are using Dexamethasone and using some biologicals to try to stop the cytokine storms. You’re probably well protected. We will all need boosters at some pointing if you want the best protection.
Posted 8/23/2021 2:31 AM (GMT 0)

ks1905 said...

HaleyA said...
Question for all of you relating to this third booster. I am about to go on Inflectra but I will have had both Pfizer vaccines before I do so. Will I have the same amount of protection as those getting vaccines who are not immunosuppressed? Or will being on Inflectra lessen my protection from covid? Will I need the third booster once I go on Inflectra?

Depending on the other medications that you were on prior to a Biological like steroids or 6-mp when you got both your vaccines, you’re probably pretty well covered with your immune response than us. Being on a biological when infected could stop some of the immune system’s Response with the cytokine storm that is killing some people. They are using Dexamethasone and using some biologicals to try to stop the cytokine storms. You’re probably well protected. We will all need boosters at some pointing if you want the best protection.

Thanks for your response! I am only on Lialda and budesonide while getting the vaccines. I get my second vaccine soon I’ll also be waiting 2 weeks after my second before starting Inflectra.
Posted 8/23/2021 2:57 AM (GMT 0)

HaleyA said...

Thanks for your response! I am only on Lialda and budesonide while getting the vaccines. I get my second vaccine soon I’ll also be waiting 2 weeks after my second before starting Inflectra.

Entocort is a steroid but is not as systemic as prednisone. I wonder if you’re considered immunocompromised since you are taking a steroid.

Current guidance is 28 days after your second dose for your booster shot if you’re immunocompromised.

I had a conversation with my GI and since I was doing well he advised that I space out my normal maintenance dose by an extra 10 days of Stelara since my 2nd Pfizer dose was due near my maintenance dose of stelara.
Posted 8/23/2021 3:28 AM (GMT 0)

VanJordan said...

Keep drinking that koolaid.

The hospitals are filling up with Antivaxxers and people who refuse vaccines. Keep going with your pseudoscience and conspiracy theories. What’s your favorite koolaid flavor?

Antivaxxers are a clear and present danger to the immunocompromised, the elderly, and medically fragile patients, but you wonder why people on this forum don’t take you seriously.

I’ll take advice from reputable doctors and scientists who have studied their entire lives for situations like this, not from someone who reads conspiracy theories on Facebook and the internet for 4 hours a day and is trying to sell snake oil.
Posted 8/23/2021 3:47 AM (GMT 0)

IamCurious said...

I, and there may be many others who agree with you, but it is counter productive to post that. (It may be interpreted as inflammatory and it would be a shame to see a well-read poster like yourself kicked off the forum.) People are really afraid and will do whatever authorities say is in their best interest. If they haven't made up their minds about therapeutics by now then there is nothing you can say that will change that.

People are really afraid and are looking for guidance from the science experts who are in a position of authority right now. I don't blame them but the truth will come out sooner or later. The good news is that Fauci and Gates don't have the same influence with the rest of the world as they have here in the U.S.

One of the reasons the per capita rate of infection and fatality in Sub-Saharan Africa has been so much lower than was expected at the start of the pandemic is because Africans routinely take hydroxychloroquine to prevent malaria.

Hydroxychloroquine is cheap and safe and seems to have excellent prophylactic properties against the COVID virus. Likewise, the drug Ivermectin, which is also cheap and safe, has had fantastic results in helping to mitigate a severe outbreak of the Delta variant of the virus in India.

In India, Ivermectin stopped COVID dead in its tracks. 61 studies incorporating about 23,000 people revealed as much as a 96% reduction in death by taking Ivermectin.

How is a post like this even allowed on a health forum for patients? Gates, Hydroxychloroquine, and Ivermectin would have gotten you suspended or flagged from Twitter and Facebook.

You forgot 5G, Microchips, and becoming magnetized.

There have been over 5 Billion vaccine doses administered worldwide so far. Pfizer and Moderna are very safe and extremely effective. Your scare tactics and conspiracy theories are hurting people.
Posted 8/23/2021 10:50 AM (GMT 0)

ks1905 said...
The hospitals are filling up with Antivaxxers and people who refuse vaccines. Keep going with your pseudoscience and conspiracy theories. What’s your favorite koolaid flavor?

The site I posted contains PEER REVIEWED science. Do you know what that means? It means it's real science.

But by all means, keep using big words that you don't understand the meaning of.

ks1905 said...
Antivaxxers are a clear and present danger to the immunocompromised, the elderly, and medically fragile patients, but you wonder why people on this forum don’t take you seriously.

It's you who don't take me seriously, not "people on this forum". Own your disagreement please, don't appeal to some mythical group.

ks1905 said...
I’ll take advice from reputable doctors and scientists who have studied their entire lives for situations like this, not from someone who reads conspiracy theories on Facebook and the internet for 4 hours a day and is trying to sell snake oil.

As is your right, but I don't be defamed by you. I read peer reviewed science, not Facebook. You're just dismissing me out of hand because you don't want to hear anything that doesn't jive with your narrative. Like I said, koolaid.
Posted 8/23/2021 11:19 AM (GMT 0)
Sorry Susie, I did come here to share my experience with having 3 covid shots (including doing mix-and-match vaccines which supposedly leads to stronger side effects).

I need to put some facts straight so that people are not misinformed.

VanJordan said...
This is my last post in this thread.


Clearly not...

VanJordan said...
You didn't look at the link I provided. It's all peer reviewed data.

I did look. The meta-analysis itself has not been peer reviewed even if it contains some individual studies that have been. In fact, this is what the BMJ (a reputable medical journal) has to say on your link:

https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/05/26/bmjebm-2021-111678

Title: Misleading clinical evidence and systematic reviews on ivermectin for COVID-19

Quote: Different websites (such as https://ivmmeta.com/, https://c19ivermectin.com/, https://tratamientotemprano.org/estudios-ivermectina/, among others) have conducted meta-analyses with ivermectin studies, showing unpublished colourful forest plots which rapidly gained public acknowledgement and were disseminated via social media, without following any methodological or report guidelines. These websites do not include protocol registration with methods, search strategies, inclusion criteria, quality assessment of the included studies nor the certainty of the evidence of the pooled estimates. Prospective registration of systematic reviews with or without meta-analysis protocols is a key feature for providing transparency in the review process and ensuring protection against reporting biases, by revealing differences between the methods or outcomes reported in the published review and those planned in the registered protocol. These websites show pooled estimates suggesting significant benefits with ivermectin, which has resulted in confusion for clinicians, patients and even decision-makers. This is usually a problem when performing meta-analyses which are not based in rigorous systematic reviews, often leading to spread spurious or fallacious findings"

Also, my previous link to the Nature article (reputable scientific journal) explains that all the studies with ivermectin to date are either small or flawed (the largest study was just withdrawn after readers uncovered evidence for plagiarism and data fabrication) - with the result that there is still no clear evidence on whether ivermectin does or does not help covid. Extrapolating this to mean that drug studies were stifled so that the vaccines could be approved is a conspiracy theory. As I explained above, other countries outside the US approved vaccines using their own regulatory bodies and criteria.

VanJordan said...

Nice try calling me a conspiracy theorist who uses pseudoscience though. That is the cry of the willfully ignorant and uneducated who want to dismiss others because they are terrified of looking at real evidence.

You won't succeed at confusing people. I am posting relevant data so that people have informed consent about the vaccine. People like you want them to stay uninformed.

IVM works. Doctors everywhere as using it, flouting the CDC and FDA. They're also using it in other countries.

Keep drinking that koolaid.

Thank you for the ad hominem attack, which by the way is against the forum rules. I am a professional scientist (assistant professor at university) and I spend half my working life reading and reviewing other people's science, but by all means label me as uneducated and willfully ignorant if it makes you feel better. I do not work in the medical field which means I have to defer to the experts on assessing whether evidence from a clinical trial is robust or not. But I am trained enough to recognise what is a peer reviewed publication in a reputable journal, and what isn't.
Posted 8/23/2021 11:51 AM (GMT 0)
My first two shots were Pfizer back in Mar/Apr. Thurdsay at 6pm I had my third shot which was Moderna. The reaction to this one was a bit worse than the second. I was still having fever shivers late Saturday night, which went away with a bit of Tylenol. It was like a 48+-hour hangover.

I also noticed that on the form this time they specifically asked if I was on a "high dose" of azathioprine. I asked and they seemed to think my 100mg/day was not a high dose. But it sounds like being on a "high dose" would have meant I shouldn't get the vaccine. I don't recall seeing azathioprine specifically called out on the previous Pfizer shots from March/April.
Posted 8/23/2021 12:40 PM (GMT 0)

UCinGV said...

I also noticed that on the form this time they specifically asked if I was on a "high dose" of azathioprine. I asked and they seemed to think my 100mg/day was not a high dose. But it sounds like being on a "high dose" would have meant I shouldn't get the vaccine. I don't recall seeing azathioprine specifically called out on the previous Pfizer shots from March/April.

I’m just guessing but being on a very high dose of azathioprine would be an indicator of an organ transplant or cancer treatment which they would probably want a doctor’s approval for prior to the shot.
Posted 8/23/2021 12:53 PM (GMT 0)
"While many treatments have some level of efficacy, they do not replace vaccines and other measures to avoid infection."

The above is copied directly from the link that Van keeps referring to. It's one of the bullet points before all the numbers and graphs are posted. Others have explained why that link is not reputable science for the use of the med they are talking about and their own statement appears to acknowledge that.

Why people are willing to use questionable treatments for Covid that don't have the science behind them but are unwilling to get the vaccines that DO have the science behind them is truly baffling.

Do you know where the phrase "drink the kool aid" originated? Jim Jones had his followers drink kool aid laced with poison to commit mass suicide in Jonestown. Based on the current state of hospitals in this country overflowing with the unvaccinated it seems apparent who is drinking the kool aid now.
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