re: people at high risk for Covid

Van Jordan,

This is curiosity.... I am not attacking you or your opinion. I want to understand and compare. By doing that it might assist me. It's probably listed and I missed it.... Did you get vaccinated, have Covid, or both? Are you still on Prednisone? I ask because maybe your personal experiences would help others.

Your level of risk would be different from someone (like me) that was on Remicade, Methotrexate, Prednisone, had all 3 vaccines with a confirmed 0 antibodies that had asthma, chronic kidney disease, was older and was chunky because of 80 mg of Prednisone a day for longer than 2 years. So honestly to me...well you have a risk but you are -in my opinion- not high risk--so its like comparing apples to oranges when you say high risk. If you are high risk than what am I?

When I am comparing views I like to know why the person feels that way... What helped you to not be fearful. And how would you address someone like me and my situation if I were your mother, sister, or daughter? What could society do to find a compromise? My compromise is self isolating, sanitizing, wearing those shirts and masks, and trying to explain why I feel the way I do. I call and speak to doctors and medical.companies asking about their R&D for upcoming therapeutics. I can't think of anything else to do.

I'm sorry if you think I am being mean. I am trying to understand and figure out a way that people from all risk levels can work together towards solutions with mindful insights and suggestions. I would like to hear yours.

Clo

Ms2011,

Did you lose your sense of taste or smell? How long did you feel bad? Any GI issues? Which vaccines did you get? How long do you think it was between exposure and your symptoms? Any idea on which variant? Are you older or younger?

I know...nosey rosey... But I don't get to talk to people that have had it much...and I am a scaredy cat.

Glad you sound like it was an easy case though and that you are doing better.

CCinPA
Bummer on the Crickets. I think many people that aren't directly impacted are over it and have decided it really does not matter. 😢

Flowers Gal, CCinPA,
I wore another one out today mowing the grass.(riding mower) I have a friendly neighbor that likes to stop his car, get out, and come right up to you. No mask. Today he stopped, looked at my shirt, laughed like a loon, stayed further away and returned to his vehicle for a mask. Hmmmm.. seems like the shirts are helpful.

Faithmac,
I know that you would never make someone else I'll on purpose. And it's time for things to get easier. No worries...

Clo

clo2014 said...
Van Jordan,

This is curiosity.... I am not attacking you or your opinion. I want to understand and compare. By doing that it might assist me. It's probably listed and I missed it.... Did you get vaccinated, have Covid, or both? Are you still on Prednisone? I ask because maybe your personal experiences would help others.

Your level of risk would be different from someone (like me) that was on Remicade, Methotrexate, Prednisone, had all 3 vaccines with a confirmed 0 antibodies that had asthma, chronic kidney disease, was older and was chunky because of 80 mg of Prednisone a day for longer than 2 years. So honestly to me...well you have a risk but you are -in my opinion- not high risk--so its like comparing apples to oranges when you say high risk. If you are high risk than what am I?

When I am comparing views I like to know why the person feels that way... What helped you to not be fearful. And how would you address someone like me and my situation if I were your mother, sister, or daughter? What could society do to find a compromise? My compromise is self isolating, sanitizing, wearing those shirts and masks, and trying to explain why I feel the way I do. I call and speak to doctors and medical.companies asking about their R&D for upcoming therapeutics. I can't think of anything else to do.

I'm sorry if you think I am being mean. I am trying to understand and figure out a way that people from all risk levels can work together towards solutions with mindful insights and suggestions. I would like to hear yours.

Clo

I don't think you're being mean at all! I really sympathize with your situation. I do understand that there are differing degrees of "immune compromised". I appreciate that you take all necessary precautions to protect yourself. In terms of compromise, I think the only thing you can do is to reasonably notify people who you're about to come into contact with that you're immune compromised, so that they can advise you of what risks may be present. Then you have to assess for yourself if the risk is worth it or not.

I think people who are actively sick with viral symptoms should not be socializing, and should be minimizing their public contact (except for essential services), regardless if it's covid they have, or something else. And for the most part, I think most people have always behaved this way. But if someone has such a weak immune system that even getting, say, the common cold could be dangerous, then that person should probably live in a bubble as best they can. As far as I know, that's what cancer patients do. A year ago my aunt died of cancer and in her final month almost nobody was allowed to visit her because she was so vulnerable. We can't expect all of society to shut down to cater to people with compromised immunity. And yes, I would feel this way even if it was myself, or a family member. The world doesn't revolve around me. Most of humanity is not immune compromised. For example, I can't eat gluten... is it fair to expect all of society to not eat gluten so that I can avoid cross-contamination? No. There are restaurants I must avoid no matter how sucky it is, and I have to ask questions to protect myself because I can't expect other people to protect me.

Mandates and lockdowns need to end. They are destroying our society. We have never quarantined the healthy. People who are healthy should live their lives freely. People who are immune compromised should practice risk assessment. That is how things have always been done.

Lol. I can only see all of your replies to him, and it's pretty entertaining this way.

Clo: Great shirt idea and I'm glad people respected it!

Same here, poopy. I agree.

Covid is such a crazy disease. We talked to a friend yesterday (on the phone—he lives 2 hrs from us) that has omicron now — mild symptoms like a cold. He’s unvaccinated and it’s his 2nd time with covid,the first before vaccines were available I think. I would consider him high risk because he’s overweight and in his 60s. Another friend tested positive about a year ago, won’t vaccinate, and had no symptoms at all! And he’s overweight and constantly has lung/bronchitis problems. So of course both say that covid is not a big deal and not worse than a cold or flu. ::sigh:: I know the families of those who have died from covid will disagree with that statement.

I don’t get it. When you can’t look around you and see that others are suffering and you could help somewhat by social distancing, masking, getting a vaccine—why wouldn’t you? Vaccines have been proven now to be safe and effective. Why is it interfering with a persons personal liberty to ask they help prevent a disease that can kill someone?

And I don’t think that people that are sick isolate themselves from society. No one has that kind of respect anymore. Not to mention all the minimum wage people who can’t afford to miss work, and have no sick pay, so they go in sick (not blaming them—they have no choice sometimes)

New anti Virals????? Oh gosh I gotta go research. Thanks for that heads up Keith.

Long Covid is very real and scary. My niece has it. She still can't catch her breath and it's been 5 months. Yikes..

Sometimes when you are listening or reading just half a conversation.. it is vastly entertaining. I can't take credit for the shirts. It was my sister's, nephew's and nieces idea. One of my sister's a psychiatrist .. she is always looking for social experiments. I swear she's keeping notes and trying to get my doctor nephew to hand the shirts out to his patients and keep track of what happens afterwards. I think she's gone off the deep end. Our family chat is going wild.....Lol... 🤪

Lol! At least you're having some fun with it! Glad you have some understanding from some family members.

That's too funny about the cows. I'm sure it doesn't phase them one bit.
Yeah, you really are lucky to not have to be in this situation all alone.

Ms2011,

Thank you for answering my questions. I have an "adopted daughter" your age that texted me today that she was not feeling well. She tested positive and I have been worried. You have helped calm my fears.

I am glad that you are doing well and recovering!

Clo

CCinPA said...
The only reason I don't have him blocked is because he can come across as reasonable and intelligent for those who do not know better so I try to put a check on him when it matters. A lot of the time it doesn't matter. This time it does. High risk people (like Clo and the people in the article) are at high risk of death and are very limited in what they can do on their own and to try to equate to that demeans the challenges they face. I am high risk mainly because of other issues (hypertension all my adult life, pre-diabetes from pred, obesity only partly from pred, and being over 60). I did get some minimal antibodies from the vaccines so hopefully they can help negate the other risk factors. Still taking a lot of precautions and not socializing with anyone in person. I should have my latest UNC antibody test results. I am hoping that the 4th shot gave me more antibodies. But people like Clo and the people in the article are at very high risk and it's sad that some people just say the equivalent of "too bad, so sad, stay away from people, you are on your own and we don't really care".

Sorry, I see you did respond, you just didn't quote me. I'm not clear on what the purpose of "checking me" is as the reason for not blocking me. Nor do I understand why you hate me so much. I bear you no ill will and there is no reason to be threatened by me.

It's not that I don't sympathize with people who are immune compromised. I may not meet your qualification of "compromised", but I have definitely been advised by my medical team to avoid high risk areas while I've been on high dose prednisone, which was as recent as 3 months ago. So please stop judging me on that front.

My issue is that, as a public health policy that restricts the lives of the healthy, it's completely impractical over the long term. We still don't have effective covid prevention. The vaccine is leaky and did not stop spread of omicron. It's widely acknowledged that the vax reduces symptoms, so the best people can do who are compromised is get vaccinated. If that does not produce adequate protection, then you're left with the options that you've always had, even before covid: practice hygiene, limit high risk contact, inform your contacts that you are vulnerable, only eat thoroughly cooked food, etc. What more do you want? The whole world to sequester itself so you can feel safe? That just isn't realistic. As someone who has UC, I would never expect that. Widespread lockdowns and mandates have had devastating consequences. It's why the mandates are being lifted everywhere now. It has ruined economies, increased the suicide rate, other diseases are not being taken care of in healthcare because screening and treatments have been delayed, the list goes on and on. You can't put all your risk-avoidance eggs in one basket, because there are OTHER risks that matter too.

I don't understand why my view means that I "don't care about the immune compromised". It's not that I don't care, it's that I don't ONLY care about the immune compromised. I care about EVERYONE.

CCinPA said...
Personally, I would like to see everyone wearing masks in public places. But they don't and won't unless required to do so. Masks work. Masks work best when everyone wears them and they aren't that uncomfortable especially if you only wear them for the short time you are in a store. Seems that most people find them a great hardship so I don't see people voluntarily wearing them any time soon.

The masks actually don't work, it's social distancing that works:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/12/201222132057.htm

If you can fog up a pair of glasses while wearing a mask, then moisture droplets from your breath are escaping, and covid is even smaller than those droplets. There are long-term consequences to having to wear masks and PPE all the time.

CCinPA said...
In a perfect world, people would stay home when they get a cold. But they never have and never will (which is why they spread so much). Now, most times there's no way to tell if it's "just a cold" or Covid unless you test and a lot of people with only minimal symptoms don't bother testing. That is where the huge danger lurks for high risk people.

High risk people will continue to be high risk even after covid is gone. You've always been at risk of major seasonal epidemic diseases, like the flu. Influenza kills millions yearly, but we don't restrict the lives of the healthy to protect the vulnerable. You are supposed to use the tools and means available to you to protect yourself, and each person has to practice their own risk mitigation. That's the only way to protect the maximum number of people while ALSO allowing society to remain open and functioning.

In the beginning, we didn't know a lot about corona, and also it was a stronger disease. The evidence appears to show that as time goes on, covid is getting weaker as a virus... so I think it's time to scale back these intense measures and start reopening society.

I don't understand why this is so difficult to grasp. You have to look at what's best for society as a whole and not just one group of individuals. I understand how frustrating it is to be an immune compromised person, I get it.

And as a closing note, please stop being so hostile toward me. Just because we disagree in discussion doesn't mean I'm coming for you personally. I don't deserve to be targeted. Please keep your personal judgments to yourself. Thank you.

Post Edited (VanJordan) : 2/21/2022 11:38:50 PM (GMT-7)

Van -- I don't hate you. I have no desire to debate you, but I won't let you say nonsense and let it stand without saying something. That's what I mean by checking you. You exaggerate and say things like the only way to really feel safe is to sequester the entire world. That's ridiculous. It's not an all or nothing approach.

Masks DO work. Get a well fitting mask and glasses don't fog. Medical professionals have always worn masks for long hours and they seem to manage just fine. Most times the masks they wear are just to protect their patients. Other times they have to wear N95s for self protection when working with infectious patients. And at times they have to wear even more PPE like face shields. This isn't rocket science. The proof is there if you want to see it. High risk people shouldn't have to walk around in full PPE so they can protect themselves from others who refuse to wear even surgical masks that protects others. They do need to wear high grade masks, but society could make things safer just by wearing simple masks when in public.

Healthy people are not quarantined unless they have had close contact with someone infected. In the U.S. it's not even mandatory -- it's recommended but no one forces you to stay in your home.

I do disagree with governments removing all restrictions. I believe it's politics not science that they are doing so. We have seen them do this before the last couple years. Cases go down and they open everything up. Cases go back up and they try to reimpose the mitigations and everyone gets angry and ignores them and the cases go higher. Covid is still here. It hasn't gone anywhere. If we could stay with the mitigations just a little longer we would be so much better off. But because of politics they are removing them now even though there are still very high numbers of cases and deaths. They are down from the crazy highs in January, but a far cry from where it was last summer when there were still at least indoor mask requirements.

I hope that one thing you said is correct -- that Covid is getting milder. Omicron was milder for most but there was still a very high number of deaths ... higher than even the first wave ... and mostly in the unvaccinated. I didn't quote any "science" ... but numbers don't lie. People like to say that there is a 99% chance you will recover from Covid. In the U.S. we have about 400,000,000 people. A 1% death rate means that potentially 4,000,000 million will die from Covid. We're about a quarter of the way there.

You say things and when challenged you evade deflect distract or ignore. Now you are acting the victim and that I am picking on you. KS has posted a link where you had been asked specific questions by another member before and you refused to answer. I myself would be curious of the answers to the questions that were asked.