Van Jordan/Dr. Pravda (antioxidant method

Ironically, every "claim" I just made has already been cited in this thread. This is the only time I'll spell it out though, since I was called on by name directly:

Treatment satisfaction, preferences and perception gaps between patients and physicians in the ulcerative colitis CARES study: A real world-based study said...

256 patients from 11 European countries were included.

Considering the per protocol definition of corticosteroid-free remission, only a minority of patients had their UC under control (12.8% vs. 87.2% non-controlled).

- https://esp-mediao.elsevierhealth.com/eprints/s3fs-public/sponsors/assets/78490_msd_sharp_dohme_gmbh.pdf?yjf8tmfy0l7zt.sar2m2b_c2ru4hybjk

Surgery in the age of biologics said...

Surgery has historically been common in this population, with a lifetime risk of surgery ranging from 50% to 80% in CD patients and colectomy rate reaching 30% in UC patients.

- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc6454839/

goodrx.com said...

The lowest GoodRx price for the most common version of Humira is around $6,300.29, 31% off the average retail price of $9,192.26.

- https://www.goodrx.com/humira

Moreover, hoping for a better outcome in UC patients isn't an "argument" I'm going to have with anyone.

Hi, a few things.

Firstly being afraid of surgery is normal and most of us will exhaust as many options as possible before going there. Nothing wrong with being aware of the latest research and trying different things.

That being said, surgery should not be presented as the big bogeyman of UC when the majority of patients live better lives afterwards than before. It's not as ideal as having a functioning colon but it's better than having a diseased colon and the fact is sometimes in life **** happens and our bodies are not perfect. It's been really helpful to hear from members on this forum who have gone through surgery and to hear their stories (good and bad) as a mental preparation for what may be at the end of the road for some of us. Life goes on after surgery.

Secondly, most of us on this forum are not trained in medicine or statistics and that means we do not have the insight to make a full assessment of medical publications. It's really somewhat of a flaw of open access publications.... we can read the papers but we don't necessarily know what we need to know to assess the robustness of a study. I include myself in that, and I work full time in science and spend a good chunk of that reading papers... I just don't have the background in medicine to get all the nuances of a medical publication. Sometimes I take papers to my GI and ask his opinion. That has been really helpful. But just because I have read a paper... that does not make me an expert in the content.

On that line, surgery rates of "reaching 30%" means that 30% is the estimated upper limit. They don't give a lower limit, which has the effect of emphasising the worst case scenario. It's hard to know what the current rate is when so many new drugs come out. Another paper I found from 2021 quoted "10% to 30%". The link posted above was from 2016. Xeljanz was licensed for UC in 2018 and other jak inhibitors are following. Without xeljanz I would already have gone for surgery. There are lots of patients like me. JAK inhibitors seem to work especially well on patients who did not respond to biologics. (Likewise there is a class of patients who dont respond to jak inhibitors but do respond to anti-tnf medications). Newer drugs are coming out all the time which block different immune pathways.

Regarding hydrogen peroxide/pravda's theory/etc. If you do some cursory googling there are OTHER publications by other researchers discussing the role of redox reactions in UC. I posted one of them in the other thread on this subject. I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts on that. My understanding is that the biochemistry is not only a lot more complex than it being all about excess h2o2, but that different patients have different things going on in their bowel which means there can never be a "one size fits all" treatment approach.

People claiming to have found a "cure" for a disease, all by themselves, is to me a huge red flag. It will most definitely appeal to patients who are desperate and suffering, who are possibly not getting optimal treatment from suboptimal GIs. It's a much nicer world if there is a simple cure and the reason our GIs don't help us is because it's in their interests to keep us sick...

Ooh one other thing (added as an edit) Drug prices are different in different countries. In the EU, entyvio is around 1000 euros per infusion. Which is still astronomical (in my opinion), but the cost in the US is, I think, closer to 10 times that? It's good to be aware, that how things work in one country is not how the work on the rest of the planet.

Try your alternatives, and if they work, great..come back here and share it. You can do that without dissing on the entirety of modern medicine or people who decide that even if alternatives DO work for them, they prefer to work with clinically established methods or prefer the convenience of taking 2 pills a day (I've seen posts where people are taking 20 supplements....geez).

And if you're not sure what's truth or fake... try to practise discernment. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is....

Post Edited (poopydoop) : 8/22/2022 6:50:43 AM (GMT-7)

CC, It is still 7 pages...dont think that has changed so not sure about posts being removed....are you mixing up this thread with another long thread that got locked in this subject area....if so i think you will find this on the second page here

Nope, damo ... I know that I had quoted things in Pravda's paper and that post is gone from this thread. That paper is now mentioned on page 2 of this thread and had never been mentioned in the other thread because it wasn't out yet.

I don’t know why people assume because you’re interested in trying alternatives that you’re choosing that over the advice of your Dr? I will definitely be including pravdas protocol to see if it helps. That doesn’t mean I intend to stop following the advice of my GI. I’ve emailed the papers to my Dr. My GI has patients with zero inflammation on entyvio who he still performs FTs on. I don’t know if anyone outside of Australia seen that Dr Barody called on all GPs to prescribe ivermectin for covid 19. Quack science from a Gastroenterologist who invented the triple therapy for H pylori and leads the world in research with FT. He sent letters to Scott Morrison and they were ignored. Why is it hard to believe one individual can cure a disease? Is it because any one who gets close to a cure gets shut down? A bit like what happened on this forum.

“ Imagine if a renowned Australian gastroenterologist invented an effective, cheap, readily available treatment for COVID-19 and his own country ignored him.
That’s what has happened to Professor Thomas Borody, who is famous for inventing a cure for the bacterial infection which causes peptic ulcers, saving mil-
lions of lives around the world”

Imagine if an immunologist found a cure for a disease they’ve been treating thousands of People using immunosuppressants.
I find it highly suspicious the resistance Van Jordan’s thread created.
Oh and Quincy I’ve put you on ignore. You seem to think your some what superior on this forum.. you’re not!

That is all well and good TAA only there is no cure for UC. It has not been found and the real experts in the field feel it is a very very long time away.

You are obviously still relying on Entyvio which is a very expensive drug. You have not dropped this medication. It is a medication that I'm sure is subsidized for you by the Australian government and de facto by the Australian tax payer. I'm sure you have paid all your taxes and well deserve this med. But rather than worrying about false claims and what was said to upset that other poster why not worry about the thousands of people suffering from UC and CD in disadvantageous areas who do not have access to the drugs like Entyvio that you do. The many people who cannot ring up a GI, who cannot be put on biologics, who cannot receive urgent medical care....like you can.

It would be great if a cure would come like it did in some ways for the stomach ulcer case you mentioned. But it has not come. And for the many of us who have suffered at the hands of this disease then hearing that rubbish for the last 3 months about root cure of UC has been found was enough to make our blood boil.

I can remember a time back in 2007 when there was weeks of debate about baking soda and some formulation of that which had just come out as holding the key to UC. The current "discussion" reminds me of those great debates...i think it was from an asian HW member on here back then who drew up the baking soda argument (I say asian in this context purely as a matter of remembered fact and for no other reason). Possibly some of the older members on here like quincy and ks will remember these threads and arguments. There was also an outbreak of a cure over the "whipworm" strategy and some other heated debate.....with all that said i have no doubt that Old Mike had some good solid research papers on baking soda back in the day....

damo123 said...
I can remember a time back in 2007 when there was weeks of debate about baking soda and some formulation of that which had just come out as holding the key to UC.

Since you mentioned Baking Soda....

https://jagwire.augusta.edu/drinking-baking-soda-could-be-an-inexpensive-safe-way-to-combat-autoimmune-disease/
Drinking baking soda could be an inexpensive, safe way to combat autoimmune disease.
The research was funded by the National Institutes of Health.

I don’t think anyone will be able to make a valid scientific argument that the pathology of UC is not inextricably linked with oxidative stress.

Another possibility for antioxidant delivery to the outer reaches of the digestive system? -

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-13655-7

And some background to that paper:-

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11051-017-3873-z

https://www.hilarispublisher.com/proceedings/si-nanopowder-for-internal-hydrogen-generation-materials-7766.html

"We have performed hydrogen generation experiments under conditions similar to bowels, i.e., pH 8.3 and 36ºC. In this case, more than 300 mL hydrogen was generated from 1 g Si for 20 h. This hydrogen volume corresponds to that contained in more than 17 L saturated hydrogen-rich water."

Waxmoth...you might re-post and change the word oxidative stress to the word food...and similarly u will find research papers to back that up...you might re-post again and change the word oxidative stress to general stress and similarly u will find research papers to back that up....you might re-post again and change the word oxidative stress to the word genetics...and similarly u will find research papers to back that up.. ...hell you might even change the word oxidative stress to rock n roll loving aliens and you know you might find a bit of research to back that up

UC is a complex complicated disease with no one trigger, no one cause and no one cure....oxidative stress is the new fashion these days....it will prob be mushrooms from alaska next year....im not trying to be funny but this is all a fad...and u are feeding the loop......we would love there to be one single cause and one single cure... but alas that is not the case

You must have tried Pravdas protocol a long time before it became popular again in 2022....did you have any significant success with his methods over the years Old Mike?

Charlie: My colostomy Laurie, and my rectal stump Death Vader tell the story.
Started researching UC 42 years ago when you had to read books,no real internet in 1980.
Oldmike