Patent Foramen Ovale and Atrial Septal Aneurysm

Hello Robert

I'm afraid I don't know much about your condition, but I DO know how unsettling it is to be told that there's no real problem unless something else goes wrong! Not very reassuring, is it?   Hope you can get the information you need.

I have a PFO and had a small stroke last June.  I'm not a doctor, but I've done a lot of research and talked to a lot of doctors.

The following article will help get you started.  It is well written.

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic1766.htm

There is good evidence that the occurence of both a PFO and ASA significantly increases the risk of an embolic (clotted restriction) stroke.

One treatment option is Coumadin, which is a blood platelet anti=-clumping medicine.  Another is a plug for the septal hole, called an occluder device, which is deployed with a catheter, through a leg vein.  Occulders can be used for PFOs.  The safety record for deployment is VERY high.  The long-term data on safety is not available.  Biggest risk is the device wearing a hole (erosion) in the heart wall, which actually grows around the device and covers it up.

There is a new device, awaiting FDA approval which significantly lowers the risk of erosion.  It is the CardiA Intrasept.  Well worth the wait, if you haven't had a stroke yet, I think.  I don't know if your Atrial Septal Aneurism (ASA) preculdes the use of an occluder or not.   If it does, the other option besides preventative medication may actually be open heart surgery.

BUT... your doctors will likely suggest preventative medication unless you've had two strokes already.  Problem is, there are concerns about long-term use of Coumadin.  I know this sounds pretty heavy.  But if you get on Coumadin, you've probably reduced your risk immediately and can then take some time to determine if you want other protection (surgery or occluder).

Good luck.  And OR COURSE, I am not a doctor and don't presume that what I'm sharing is perfectly accurate.  It is my best understanding of the issues.

AND... death is inevitable.  Suffering is not.  Joy is not.  We get to CHOOSE if we want joy and living fully in every moment.  Live fully, with gratitude.

hi Robert

I also have a PFO.  people who have this are born with it, and basically it causes no immeidate problems (or so I have been told by all my doctors !!!!).  it basically means that there is a small hole between the left anf right side of the heart.  this should have healed at birht, but it some it does not.  (about 25% of the population have one, I was told....)

you have to just "be aware of it" (my Dr said).  youm also have to have a sachet of antibiotics before you have deep dental work (although you may already knnow all this?!  do you?). 

also, you may have to take an asprin each day to keep the blood a bit thinner so that no clots pass through the hole.  I am meant to, but in all honesty, I forget most days to take it!  this is mainly just to thin the blood a little.  a possible problems could be that if a clot passed through the hole, a strolke could take place, as the clot goes into the heart and then gets pumped out again in the direction of your head.

ladies like me also have to be aware of a PFO during pregnancy etc and may have to also have a C- Section to avoid stress on the heart and forceing the hole to open more.  but as you are a guy you dont have to worry about this .....lol  !

Is any of this any help to you?  feel free to email me at [email protected] if you want to chat about it (mark it "for Vikki").  I hope that you are a bit happier to hear that you are not alone and lots have a PFO.  I know its tough finding out stuff like this that make you worry.

Indeed, I have had a tough year with finding out all about my problems, and I am now sufferig from Depression and Anxiety and sleepless nights and I dont know why!  just a big-build up I think... (saw gp today and was given some pills - so hoefully i'll pick up now......or in a few weeks!....ho hum....)

Cant help on the other heart prob im afraid, I only know aboiuthe PFO stuff ...

Hi and Welcome, Janice!

You seem to have educated yourself a lot on this issue and that's great! - I think it is necessary in today's world to be a part of your health team - it's your body!  Thank you for all your info, I hope someone who shares this problem comes along to chat with you.  In the meantime, please feel free to join in whenever you'd like! 

Hugs, Teri

I am a 32 yr old female also recently diagnosed with PFO & ASA conditions

with right to left shunting.  I don't smoke, drink,no caffiene,etc.   I totally understand how you feel, there is so much inforomation on them SEPERATELY but not together. Especially cases where they found them before the person has had a stroke.  My doctor stated it is extremely rare and there is no research on patients with these conditions who have not had a stroke  nor treatments.  I am taking baby aspirin and plavix as a preventative measure. 

 If it were just one of the conditions alone it would be easier to treat, but since it is both  the doctors don't know if it would be more risky to try to deal with both unless a stroke occurs and it is necessary.

I have found articles relating to both but none on pre-stroke cases. I have read in some articles that depending on the symptoms other medicines to control systemic pressure as well as diureticts. Here are some websites I found to get a little more information:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=152841

http://heart.healthcentersonline.com/aneurysm/aorticaneurysm.cfm

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=152841

http://www.barnesjewish.org/groups/default.asp?Navid=1323

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic1766.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10643062&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ihimontana.org/cardiology-patent-foramen-ovale-closure.php

http://www.penroseheart.org/conditions.asp?id=ASD

http://community.healthgate.com/GetContent.asp?siteid=holycross&docid=/dci/septaldefects

http://www.ucsf.edu/stroke/patinfo.htm#asa

http://www.heartonline.org/aneurysm.htm

You may also want to use different search engines.  That's how I am finding various articles.

Some of the links also list Dr.s who specialize in treating these conditions, you may want to contact specialists to see what research, treatments and options there are BEFORE there is a possible stroke.

I hate the thought of having to wait for something to happen before things can be repaired.

I'd be more than happy to chat with you on this.  I'm feeling rather lost and frustrated.  My email is [email protected] for you or anyone else who wants to chat/discuss this.

 Like your Dr. said these can be benign and asymptomatic until we get older. Some articles state that by our 60's things will no longer be asymptomatic...go figure...

  I know that know i'm doing my best to limit stress, no stimulants ( boy i'm missing the chocolate) and looking at what I need to do to better my quality of life.

hope this helps and glad I could vent.

Michelle

I have already emailed with Janice so it's great to be able to connect with someone else who is goign throught the same thing.

Thanks for the support

Michelle

Hi Michelle!

That was a great link!!  Thank you!  It is important to have the support of others and especially someone else who's 'been there' already!  I'm happy that you and Janice are helping each other.

Hugs, Teri

Don't forget Chat night is tonight, Thursday @ 8 PM to PM CST!!

We'd love to have you there. :)