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Anyone with Bile reflux (duodenogastric reflux)?

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Posted 2/16/2011 1:26 PM (GMT 0)
is there any cure for this? a doctor told me that the only way to fix it was surgery, i don't have gastritis, esophagitis or vomiting, the reflux attacks my larynx and pharynx so i have a sore throat, hoarseness, fullness in my right ear and spit vomit like bile every morning, is there anyone here experiencing similar symptoms?
Posted 2/16/2011 4:10 PM (GMT 0)
Neptunian808

I am wondering what your physcian based his recommendation on ?

Sorry to hear you are having problems.  You will find many supportive members here in the forum.

Kindly,

Kitt

Posted 2/16/2011 10:16 PM (GMT 0)
she was an ENT that has worked with GI doctors to see the effect of acid and bile on the larynx, she said that basically my only option was surgery, i havent asked my GI yet, will do next week, my pyloric valve is malfunctioning and so is my LES, i wish i could find others that are going through the same sad
Posted 2/16/2011 11:43 PM (GMT 0)
Did you ask if there is a gallbladder problem? If there is and you do need surgery, you can get both fixed at the same time.

You'll probably get a bunch of tests, some not bad at all, some not too nice. They're all really important!
Posted 2/19/2011 10:39 AM (GMT 0)
Anyone? cry
Posted 2/19/2011 2:59 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Neptunian,
So sorry to hear you're having those problems. I do believe it is true that surgery is the only way to solve the problem, as there are no meds equivalent to PPI's that will shut off the production of bile.

From what I've read, bile reflux involves the insufficiency of the valve between the stomach and the duodenum. I'm no expert, but that is the information I've read. Once the bile gets into your stomach, if your LES is open, it allows the bile to reflux into the esophagus. Bile is as damaging to the esophagus (and those other things you're suffering from) as acid is.

If you can get your LES closed, you can stop the bile from traveling up your esophagus. That said, it's likely that the surgery would definitely help the situation, but because it's not a perfect procedure, there's no guarantee that it would make you absolutely free of bile reflux--just like acid, it can escape at times. The problem with the surgery is that the surgeon has to balance wrap tightness with the ability to swallow.

A year after my surgery I experienced a little sour taste in my mouth, and when I went to my GI doc, he diagnosed it as bile reflux (I don't know where that diagnosis came from, but he seemed quite confident). He recommended that I take Carafate suspension, which I had already taken for reflux in general. If you haven't tried that, it's the best. It coats the stomach and esophagus and makes everything more comfortable. When you take it, rinse your mouth, but don't swallow water for ten minutes or so, to ensure that it attaches to the esophagus.

I don't know if my GI doc's diagnosis was correct or not. It could just as easily have been some reflux of acid. However it hasn't really caused much trouble either way. My only concern is that I have asthma, and a little spritz of either bile or acid can get it going.

Anyway...that's my take on bile reflux. I hope it helps in some way. It's possible that the reason there aren't many here with bile reflux is that they don't search GERD or Heartburn when they're looking for answers on the internet. Perhaps there's a forum somewhere that focuses on just that. This is a great forum, as it's generally positive and very helpful. If you do explore the surgical option, you'll get lots more input here. Hopefully someone will come by soon with more insight.
Good luck, and hang in there!
Denise
Posted 2/19/2011 3:51 PM (GMT 0)
hi Denise thanks for your reply, when you say "A year after my surgery I experienced a little sour taste in my mouth" are you talking about a nissen procedure? i wanna get a roux en y surgery where they connect your esophagus with your yeyunum and a pyloric exclusion or something, im gonna have to have a looong chat with my doctor, this thing is a nightmare cry
Posted 2/19/2011 4:48 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Neptunian,
Yes, I had a Nissen...not for bile, but for reflux that was creating all kinds of problems with my lungs. I was on high, unhealthy doses of steroids to keep me breathing, and the surgery was my only solution. Thankfully it did the trick. Although I do get some asthma (as I did before I had reflux), I'm not on all the steroids, and things are much better. I'm so glad I had the procedure.

It sounds like you would benefit from something that will stop that bile from going where it shouldn't. I hope you can find a GREAT surgeon...that's the real key. I would guess someone who specializes in esophageal/stomach surgeries would be best. Good luck finding answers to your problems! I hope you can get things straightened around so you get your quality of life back. I send you my very best wishes!

Take care,
Denise
Posted 2/19/2011 4:50 PM (GMT 0)
Good Morning,

For obese patients needing surgery for gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD), laparoscopic Roux-en-Y gastric bypass is more effective than the standard Nissen fundoplication, according to a study reported in the July issue of Surgical Endoscopy. While controlling symptoms of GERD, the bypass procedure offers the added benefit of substantial weight loss.

Many people will lose up to 70% of their body weight...........not knowing all your history I think you are on the right track in talking with your physician and surgeons re which procedure is the best choice for you.

Take care and I wish you the best.

Kitt

Posted 2/21/2011 5:00 PM (GMT 0)
im not obese if anything im underweight so idk if doctors are going to be willing to do a roux en y on me, i haven't been able to find anyone who had this done for bile reflux
Posted 3/13/2012 3:49 PM (GMT 0)
Neptunian808,

I am currently undergoing testing for bile reflux. I've had two Nissen Fundoplications and the first one worked for 6-8 months and then I started having symptoms again. I had the second surgery 1 years and 2 months after the first surgery. After 2 weeks of the 2nd Nissen, I began having symptoms again. I was sent for a CT Scan and a barium swallow, both of which came back normal.

I have a constant bitter taste in my mouth, sore throat, burning in my stomach (and pain), chronic cough, which I've had for years, and my lungs are pretty much toast because I've been aspirating acid and possibly bile for about 25 years. I have a critical care pulmonologist that sent me to a thoracic surgeon that also specializes in esophageal and gastric issues. I am waiting for the testing to begin so that they can verify that is bile reflux.

Your post was in February so I am wondering where you are in the process and if they definitely diagnosed you with bile reflux. If so, what have you had done and did they tell you what the plan is to repair it?
Posted 3/13/2012 7:13 PM (GMT 0)
Hello, my cousin had the nissen wrap at the end of November 2011 and she was doing fine with absolutely no reflux for about 2 months, however, she vomitted quite a few times within those two months.  To make a long story short, she started having heartburn all over again about a month ago.  She ended up in the hospital because she couldn't keep any food or liquid down.  Her surgeon did an endoscopy and told her that she had an excessive amount of bile spewing from her liver and kidney.  He said that it was so sever that he couldn't see much in her stomach.  On top of that she has a sever case of the h-pylori bacteria.  Prior to the surgery she only had the heartburn, could it be possible that the surgery could have triggered the spewing of bile?  I am sure the h-pylori bacteria might have something to do with it.  I am looking for some answers or suggestions that might help her.  In Canada, it's always a wait for appointments and her next appointment with the surgeon is not until April 5.  She is presently on antibiotics for the h-pylori bacteria that is coming to an end tomorrow with no relief in sight.

Help me please.

Cindy confused cry

Posted 3/14/2012 1:38 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Cindy,

I'm so sorry to hear about your cousin's problems.  I wonder if the over-abundance of bile was the reason she was vomiting during her recovery.  Sometimes people have the Nissen to improve symptoms that were actually caused by something completely different. 

Has she gotten reports from testing that has been done (barium swallow, 24hr PH monitor, etc.)  Has she had an endoscopy?  I'm just wondering if her wrap is consider intact or it has slipped.

I don't see any reason that the surgery would create bile issues.  Gallbladder surgery, on the other hand, can create big bile problems.  Has she had her gallbladder out?

I hope she can get her H-Pylori cleared up quickly, because just that could help.  Generally a Nissen is actually the only cure for bile reflux, as no medication can counteract it. 

I know this is hard on you.  I hope she makes improvements very soon.

Best wishes,

Denise

Posted 3/14/2012 2:25 AM (GMT 0)
Luana,

How do you get tested for bile reflux?

I recently had a Nissen done, the only symptom that improved was my stomach burning pains. My throat and mouth still burn……I am about 36 days post op.

Max
Posted 3/14/2012 2:35 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Denise, good to hear from you. Hope all is well.

I am sure the vomiting was a direct result of the bile reflux, and yes, she did a barium swallow two days ago and is waiting for the result. She had an endoscopy which is how the surgeon found out that she had so much bile in her stomach. I heard that there is no quick fix to this other than surgery. The surgeon said that her wrap looks to be in tact but he wouldn't know for sure until the barrium swallow. He couldn't see much in her stomach because of the bile.

Denise, she now has heartburn 24/7...before the surgery, it used to be for a few hours a day, now it's constant.

Still looking for some answers or suggestions.


Cindy
Posted 3/14/2012 4:26 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Cindy,

I still have a hard time believing her wrap could be intact with all that heartburn.  Yes, she could have injured it and it may be very swollen still, which could explain some of it, but 24/7 seems unlikely.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the "heartburn" is just an irritated wrap and esophagus that interprets the pain as heartburn.  (Unless, of course, it's regurging into her mouth, which is obviously the culprit.

I'm so sorry to hear this.  It was so atypical to have her vomiting regularly after a Nissen that I was very concerned even then.  That's never recommended, and should be avoided at all cost.  It can ruin a perfectly good wrap. Even retching can cause serious damage.

I wish your cousin the very best, and hope she gets better soon.

Try not to take it entirely on your shoulders.  Be kind to yourself as well. 

Things are fine here.  We're having a room built in half of our basement so we have overflow room for the baby and toys, so it's a little crazy around here at the monent.  We're looking forward to a great new room for the baby to run around in, though. 

I've been struggling with a really bad sinus infection.  I was on a Z-Pack for 5 days and it didn't seem to make even a little improvement.  Thankfully, the first day after it ran out I started showing improvement.  I guess it's effective for another 5 days or so after the pills are done. I'm still not perfect but it's coming.

Have a great day, Cindy.

Take care,
Denise

Posted 3/14/2012 4:45 PM (GMT 0)
ok folks this is not spam.



I sell a product call golightly menthol cough drops. 1.69 - 2.29

but the point is this. i get late night acid up the back of the throat to the point it gags me and gets into my lungs.

severe pain and choking... heaves and sometimes vomiting because of the heaves. nasty

I have found these cough drops from golightly MENTHOL only, not the other flavors and not Halls (i have tried numerous other brands)

it's been a lifesaver.

search the web, dont buy it from me if you want, i do not care.

The most important issue is the remedy.

sometimes it takes 2 cough drops to completely work.

I take a daily pill for my gerd and sometimes when my lower intestines are "blocked" acid becomes a real issue.

That bile in the back of the throat and when it gets into the lungs is killer. these cough drops have worked for me. Try other menthol drops if you wish. the big issue as well is that they are sugar free and will not rot your teeth. many a night I feel a stomach upset and I just pop one of these in my mouth and store it on the side of the mouth, seems to last for at least an hour.

again, i apologize if this sounds spammy.

I am in the sugar free candy business and ship tons of candy a week, i do not need to make a sale for a few dollars for my pocketbook.

try if for yourselves

I had to edit your post as it does violate rule 4.

4. No advertising or links to advertising or "Spam" is permitted.

Advertising or spam is defined as posting a link for the purpose of selling, soliciting or promoting something.
Links promoting fundraising, advocacy, etc. are not permitted.
Links to personal blogs/homepages are allowed in member profiles and signatures
Sharing of links to helpful and relevant web sites and resources is allowed if they are not used for a promotional purpose.

Bill

Post Edited By Moderator (opnwhl4) : 3/14/2012 9:20:19 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 3/14/2012 5:41 PM (GMT 0)
I have heard people being cured of LPR by taking carafate tablets for bile reflux.


http://fauquierent.blogspot.com/2010/10/gaviscon-advance-for-non-acid.html

Also, Gaviscon Advance, is supposed to help LPR.

http://www.refluxadvice.co.uk/downloads/gav_adv_eor.pdf

I am taking Gaviscon Advance with Vitmain D which is supposed to strengthen the valves.
I was severely deficient in Vitamin D though. I took a blood test. The ideal Vitamin D level is 65. I was at 19.

I have been taking it for a week and I my throat does feel better.
Posted 3/31/2013 2:23 PM (GMT 0)
My Wife has stomach pain when bile accumulates in her stomach. Does she have a lower valve disorder? don't know. From what I understand, bile is released in the small intestine and it could only get in the stomach by refluxing past this lower valve. Here is what I did for her... I put her on some soluble fiber to assist in binding some of the bile and allow her to pass it and also put her on "Chamomile, which has anti-inflammatory properties. Chamomile teas are readily available and have a low risk of side effects"

Did it work? Maybe... her condition was alieviated. May have be coincidental... can't say for sure.
Also, you might consider fat blockers... when fat enters your digestive system, bile is released... bile is required to break down fats... reduce the fats, reduce the amount of bile produced.

Here is a site that may provide more information.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/bile-reflux/DS00651/DSECTION=alternative-medicine
Posted 12/22/2013 11:24 PM (GMT 0)
Hello everybody.. My name is Tanya. I have had the same health problem as everybody on this blog – bile reflux.
I am 99% better then I was 3 years ago before I found the way to cure myself. I have my life back. 3 years ago I thought I was dying and nobody could help me.
So, I would like to share with EVERYBODY that it is REAL to cure bile reflux. You do not need to suffer anymore.
Bile reflux problem I fixed with NAET treatments and hiatal hernia with a help of the chiropractor. You can read the whole story at my website: http://allergyfreeforeverway.com/reviews/sickness-and-allergy. The only natural remedy that helps in our case is Bentonite Clay. Please read about it: http://allergyfreeforeverway.com/266.
Most people suffering from bile reflux do not understand that the underlying cause of this problem is multiple allergies to different foods, minerals, vitamins, etc.
I even created my blog because I wanted to share and help people who have the same health problem as I had.
All my best,
Tanya
Posted 12/23/2013 12:04 AM (GMT 0)
Tanya-
Welcome to Healing Well!

You have a very informative site. Would you be so kind as to start a new thread with this topic of bile reflux and you blog findings?

This post is fairly old and it would be easier for people to follow with less posts to sift through.

We have noticed a very real connection here between gallbladder issues and GERD. A lot of us have had failing bladders removed.

Please stick around and add to the community.

Take care,
Bill devil
Posted 12/26/2013 2:37 AM (GMT 0)
You are not alone out here I too suffer from Bile reflux along with GERD, Gastritis and Diverticulitis.  Mine has become severe in the past two years with lots of vomiting at least 3 times per month.  I have been given Questran (binds the bile) then that creates constipation that flares Diverticulitis.  Carafate really helps to coat the stomach but the Dr. told me to wean myself off because it has Alliumin and it will drain your other vitamins and can cause increase in blood sugar. I am considering trying some supplemental remedies such as Slippery Elm, Marshmellow, Triphala or Bile Ox.  I am concerned for my own fate if I don't get help soon.
Posted 12/26/2013 9:24 PM (GMT 0)
I was diagnosed with bile reflux after an endoscopy. My doctor prescribed Welchol. I take it every time I eat, a few minutes before eating. It has been life changing. I have also used Colestipol. It does the same thing, but costs less. The medication binds with the bile in your stomach.
Posted 12/26/2013 9:48 PM (GMT 0)
Welchol is a good medication it works on the same order as Questran except it is cheaper and comes in powder form.  These meds also lower your blood sugar and sometimes given for those with prediabetes but again it binds up everything (other meds and vitamins and constipates)  Then if you get constipated the bile has no where to go but back into your stomach and you are back at square one.
Posted 12/27/2013 5:07 PM (GMT 0)
I plan my other medications accordingly, so they are not taken at the same time as the Welchol. I take it in pill form. I take my other meds first thing in the morning, or right before bed, and the Welchol is taken right before eating. I have not had any problems with constipation. I know everyone is different. But for me, the Welchol literally changed my life. I was no longer anxious about eating at restaurants or with friends somewhere, then having to make urgent trips to the bathroom. If you can give it a shot, I would think it might be worth a try for you. I wish I had known about it sooner.
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