A new perspective on GERD/LPR and EoE (long)

Bruce,

As always I appreciate your detailed response. I'd like to touch on the acid to non acid ratio some more, so hears my thought. (for the sake of conversation) Lets say stomach acid to pepsin/bile ratio is 50:1, now if we lower stomach acid to lets says 25 (ppi). So now we have a 25:1 ratio, therefore making pepsin/bile more concentrated. The body is not making more pepsin/bile just because there's less acid, however now that there is less acid it would in theory make the remaining "stuff" stronger because the ratio has changed (less watered down to speak). If the remaining "stuff" becomes more concentrated (from less acid) the end result (if refluxing anything in the stomach) would be a more intense effect causing greater damage. Now if pepsin or bile is responsible for "lpr", this theory would support the idea as to why some have worst "lpr" symptoms on a acid reducer.

Bruce. Here's an article about how bile reaches the esophagus.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/30/health/30brod.html?_r=2&

Good info you provide. It is educational for us. Thanks

Thank you for the link, Pat.

I think it's important for all of us here on this board to retain perspective and focus, and while it's important to be aware of things like bile reflux, to also understand that this particular condition is rare.  The population sample of HW GERD members is not the same as the general population, but I think it's relatively safe to say that if you don't fit the profile for biliary reflux, you probably don't have it.  The causes of biliary reflux are listed as: damage to the pyloric valve from gastric surgery, peptic ulcer, and gallbladder surgery.  It also appears to be common in cystic fibrosis patients.  If you are not in one of these groups, I wouldn't concern myself with it.  We've got enough on our minds already!  ;-)

-Bruce

Bruce. Re bile reflux. I understand that we are not the same as general population and we (me) do not have the listed causes you mentioned in your previous entry, but for what it's worth,-- our endoscopy GI doctor took and gave us pics of the esophagus and stomach. The stomach picture contained a green pooled liquid in it (absolutely no doubt about the color) and told us that it was bile . He was not concerned about it. This was pre-op for Linx. To this date we still experience burning and feel it is bile. Post op mentioning of this brought no concern from a GI doctor.

MMM -- hope it may send you on a new avenue to explore, that may offer some hope!

Pat & DOGGBONES -- I don't doubt your doctor's evaluation...highly unusual to see anything in the stomach during an EGD, since the usual protocol is to fast for at least 12 hours. I've had four, and each one was clear of any excess fluids.

Makes me wonder more about the possible connection between neuropathy and the impact on GI motility.

-Bruce

Reminder to all,

Using the forum to post research is not good use of the forum.  Members please remember anything you read in any threads should be taken with a grain of salt, in other words to check with your own Drs.

Kindly,

The Moderators of the GERD/Heartburn Forum

Hi phil --

I like to offer a counter-theory to yours. One misconception of the stomach, or any organs of the GI tract, is that they are "spacious" as depicted in diagrams, and have a robust structure to maintain a certain shape. If this were true, then the suction/backwash theory would hold true...as a volume of space is displaced, it would be replaced with another.

However, the stomach is pressed against its contents, is very soft, and would not maintain its shape if you were to hold it in your hand. Also, the entire volume of the stomach is not always open to the same process, unless a large meal has been consumed. If there is a volume of gas present, which is not normal, then that also may open up the entire organ. If there are no glaring difficulties with peristalsis, then that muscular action will keep the lower contents of the stomach contained, even if there was a small amount of bile temporarily moving backwards.

(Many folks don't realize that during the EGD procedure, the physician inflates the stomach to be able to see clearly inside...further perpetuating the myth that it is a spacious organ. It's also common for the physician to "overinflate." Perhaps this explains why Pat and DOGGBONES reported bile.)

The only exception to this would be in the presence of vomiting, where the entire contents of the stomach are forced backwards. I think I'm with the doctors on this one.

-Bruce

PS: The other product Histame seems to be unavailable. I may take a trip over to the Allergy forum and see if anyone has experience of these, as am somewhat "off piste" here on the GERD forum regarding histamine etc!

MMM

Hi,

I almost passed out Dec 2012, fast heart rate, feeling really spaced out. For years I have gotten sore throats and had enlarged tonsils. And this brain fog and anxiety feeling has grown and persisted for over a year now. I went to many drs and nothing came back except for a couple vitamin deficiencies...and after taking those vitamins and levels were back to normal the symptoms didn't go away.

a month ago I had 3 laryngo spasms where my throat closed and I thought I was dying...I went to an ENT and was diagnosed with LPR. Now i'm seeing that other people have brain fog from LPR and i'm wondering if this has been all related for a long time.

I decided I did not want to take drugs because I believe that they usually cover a symptom and do not get to the root of the problem.

I have changed my diet completely and basically am just eating most fruits and veggies some rice and quinoa, some beans, raw almonds and tofu...no tomatoes, pineapple, onion, garlic, ginger, mint, chocolate (AHH SO SAD), fatty foods, alcohol, vinegar, dairy, wheat. I feel like i'm eating almost nothing. It stinks because I can't eat at least 3 hours before bed and that means I can't go out with friends to have a drink or to eat unless i get a salad with no dressing that only has lettuce or some steamed veggies...BORING.

I have been doing this for 3 weeks and believe I have been detoxing because i had a horrible flu like thing with lots of congestion, then two days of the worst migraine I've ever had, many days of feeling exhausted, lots of tension and globus feeling in my throat and chest (i head that this is a normal reaction of the muscles contracting to prevent the acid from coming up to the vocal chords-which causes the vocal chords to swell and block your air passage-laryngo spasm-TERRIFYING)-

Even though I've been having these symptoms I haven't had the super serious breathing attacks in the past couple of weeks. I still have lesser attacks a lot-I am planning on sticking with this diet for at least another month to see if the symptoms go away. Then I will go back to the ENT and have him look down my throat again to see if there has been any change in the congestion, swelling, and redness...

I don't know if I have any advice as of yet...but I can definitely sympathize with all these people I've been reading about. I had no idea how huge of an epidemic this is. So much of the food we consume is acidic and unhealthy. But, I have been a vegetarian for 15 years, eat a lot of local and organic foods, and lots of fruits and veggies...so I'm confused as to why it's effecting me.

I hope I can eat some of my favorite foods again and wonder if there is something underlying that's causing this...but I don't feel like going to get a million more tests.

We are not alone and I hope that we can all help each other to get through these difficult times.
Bac

Hello Bruce, It sounds as though you have fibromylegia (FM). Have you looked into this? “Chronic fatigue, lack of restful sleep, muscle and joint pain, "brain fog" and cognition/memory problems, "jumping" legs when sitting,..” and more are all a part of the disease process. I believe I have had it all my life, but my symptoms went into high gear after I had my knees replaced. It is believed that trauma to your body can kick off FM. You are going to a rheumatologist, so he can diagnose you. Simply put, fibromylegia is pain caused by the nerves in your muscles. Since there are nerves all over your body, this is a widespread disease, and it is manifested in many ways. To go along with your thoughts, eating food that causes inflammation makes FM worse. I’ve tried medication but there are so many side effects. The only drug I am on is a low dose muscle relaxer. Without it, there is no sleep. I went for a sleep study and I was waking myself up every 20 minutes with my restless legs.

I wonder if the TIF is causing inflammation in your body. I found that the acid from GERD made my FM symptoms worse. It is a never ending cycle - inflammation makes the FM hurt more and the FM “attacks” your weak points. After I had my valvuloplasty, I noticed that my FM symptoms are slightly better. Nothing makes it go away, but conditions can exercebate it. Well, at least my GERD has gone away. I also exercise daily swimming in the pool, which also helps. I am retired so it is easy for me to rest. Oh by the way, my name is yellow - not because I like the color, it is because I am scared to have any more surgery -or do anything that will cause more pain.

I never thought about testing for food allergies. I may look into it but I do try to stay away from foods that cause inflammation.

https://fibromyalgianewstoday.com/tag/autoimmune-diseases/

Post Edited (Yellow1955) : 11/24/2017 12:11:00 PM (GMT-7)