Hiatal Hernia with weird head pain symptoms!

Hi folks,

I have recently had a gastro endoscopy and been diagnosed with a 3cm sliding hiatal hernia, I sometimes get heartburn and I know that GERD can go hand in hand with this condition, however heartburn is not my main problem, my main problem is that I cannot go more than a few hours without having to eat, it seems that as soon as my stomach gets too empty I start to hypersalivate or drool so bad that my mouth becomes like a tap, I also for some reason get an accompanying sensitivity and discomfort in my forehead.

I only ever experience these symptoms when I go to long without eating and allow my stomach to become too empty and it has become extremely tiresome as I have to eat every few hours just to keep the drooling and facial discomfort at bay.

I have had numerous scans and tests, kidney, liver, blood work, hormones, etc and the only thing my Doctors can find wrong with me is this hernia and they have told me that it may or may not be the cause and are not entirely sure and I am at my wits end.

So my question is could my hiatal hernia be causing these symptoms when my stomach becomes too empty and if so why? Is this really just all from GERD? I am aware of GERD causing water brash but why ONLY when my stomach is empty? And even if GERD can explain the water brash why is it ALWAYS accompanied by forehead pain? I'm really confused, what are the mechanics behind this in relation to an empty stomach?

Many many thanks in advance, desperate and depressed.

Your response has meant the world to me, thank you so much, the amount of doctors who have looked at me as if I have two heads and just shrugged their shoulders and said they have never heard of anything like it, then I sometimes get the good old fashioned stock answer that they seem to like to use for everything these days like maybe it’s anxiety as if anything they can’t explain automatically has to be the “worried well” (so sick of that phrase), rather than just admit that in some cases they don’t really know what’s causing the problem.

In fact I actually proposed to my GI consultant specialist that maybe it could be caused by pressure on my vegus nerve and he just dismissed it and said he didn’t think it would do that and it was probably just guess what? Yes anxiety, if one more doctor says that to me I will scream, LOL.

As you can imagine just like most here I have done a little background research which is how I knew about the vegus nerve hypothesis, I had read it may have a connection to the painful sensation in my forehead along with pain in in all kinds of different parts of the body many of which aren’t necessarily known to most medical professionals as modern medicine still doesn’t yet know that much about it, or so I read, but he was so adamant it couldn’t be responsible that he did a pretty good job at convincing me otherwise although I still suspected deep down he may still be wrong.

Anyway I know this doesn’t mean for sure it is that but it at least makes me realise that there is a much greater chance that it is than my Gastroenterologist would have me believe. I guess this truly is an area where there is still so much more yet to be discovered.

From what I have read when it comes to GERD especially people can experience pain and discomfort in all kinds of different parts of their body which doctors often dismiss as anxiety, I already suspected it but you have certainly helped to lay my mind to rest a whole lot more, I guess you have to be careful as in the end they can succeed in convincing you that you are mad and stop you from getting the proper treatment you need. No wonder doctors are so hostile to the internet.

Have you found anything to calm down the vegus nerve that I could try? Even if it only works a little I am open to any suggestions from anyone.

Thanks again,

Post Edited (NikNak101) : 3/10/2014 1:45:40 PM (GMT-6)

Nik - Welcome to the forum.

Small sliding hernias rarely cause problems. Half the people over 50 or so have them and don't even know it. If the stomach gets stuck in the chest (paraesophageal hernia) it's a different story.

If you have a bad valve at the junction of esophagus and stomach, that's when stomach acid can get into the tender esophagus and cause pain and maybe your drooling from the body making mucus to stop the pain. Have you had a barium swallow to see if that's happening?

The headache is probably not from the vagus nerve, unless you have cluster migraines. But a little reflux can trigger a lot of mucus production (your drooling) which can get into the sinuses and cause pressure, especially in the forehead. Mucus can also get into the eustachian tubes which go to the ears, when you blow your nose. Do you have the headaches mostly when you get up in the morning?

An ENT doc will probably say wait a while and see if the headache goes away. They hate to prescribe antibiotics. (personal experience) On your own, you can do sinus wash at least once a day or take 12-hour Mucinex (available as OTC generic now). Sleeping on an incline might help too. If you have cheek pain you need to lie flat to let the maxillary sinuses drain, as they drain upwards. Just rinsing with a spray or a netti pot which have no pressure may not be enough. I prefer the large type squeeze bottles. My morning shower and cup of coffee help too.

On the doctors' side, they are right in not prescribing antibiotics all the time. Meds don't get to the sinuses easily because there is very little blood flow to them. You don't need them anyway unless there's a proven infection. Sign of infection can be green mucus.

Seeing a neurologist is always a good idea if you have continuing headaches.

Interesting... Mucus, I see so another possiblility, as I said in my last post even if some feel (myself included) it is a the vegus nerve obviously there are still other opinions and possibilities. I must admit I do still feel it is a nerve problem as it feels like nerve pain rather than anything like that I have ever experienced from a sinus type headache, also the imediate relief I get when I eat seems to indicate that it is as a result of the pressure been instantaneously taken off the nerve, I would have thought waiting for mucus to drain would take a little longer or a few seconds at least, it really is like a switch in that respect.

I guess it really is hard to comprehend unless you experience it and even harder to explain sometimes, it's a really weird and strange feeling like an extreme degree of oversensitivity or something and hard to put into words even but it really does feel nervy if that makes any sense.

I still think from the little I have read about this nerve that we don't fully understand all the different effects it can have. I have also read that the effect that sliding hernias can have can be anything from nothing to absolute hell depending on the case concerned. That said I do appreciate there are still other possibilities and am most grateful to Alcie for suggesting them even if it doesn't happen to be my own personal no. 1 suspect. The more help and information you can get on the subject the better and right now I am open to any suggestions so I may well give the mucus reducing medication a try, why not? Personal experimentation is sometimes the best method we have for finding things out. I hope very much it does help me.

Thanks again to all the input from both of you it is truly appreciated. One thing I was thinking of in regards to it been nerve pain again is whether a shot of botox may help, I have read it can sometimes help with pain in that area depending on the nature of the cause.

All the best,

Dear Nik,

What is the location of the headache? That's the key.

The vagus nerve only goes up to the eardrum in the head.

Can you follow where the pain starts? Occipital headaches start at the back of the head at the neck and fun up over the top. Frontal headaches from the frontal sinuses can indeed feel like nerve pain and stop fairly quickly when you get up and they even just start to drain. Frontal headaches can also be from the supraorbital nerve being damaged, but that shouldn't go away.

What do you know I have just found some Guaifenesin cough mixture in my bathroom cabinet so I have just taken a dose to see if it has any effect.

Will keep you posted...

No not in my voicebox, also I was wondering if it is from too much mucus in my sinuses wouldn't I have a blocked nose, i.e. difficulty breathing nasally like when you have a cold?

Thanks,

Any ideas on the botox idea anyone? I know it can sometimes be used for pain in that region, normally I wouldn't even consider having such a toxin injected into my body but in a situation like this I am willing to consider it.

I could try the 12 hour stuff but it looks like I would have to get it shipped from the US, they don't seem to sell it over here in the UK but maybe I could order it from abroad.

I don't know what my chances are of an anesthesiologist on the NHS giving me that sort of treatment, like I say all my doctors including my specialist just want to dismiss it as merely anxiety, my specialist also advised against surgery and none of the prescribed GERD medications I have tried have helped much (tried all the usual) I am afraid it feels like self help/medicate or no help at present. So please don't feel bad about not been qualified, you guys here have been far more helpful and knowledgeable than most my doctors, most have just starred at me blank and said don't know or insinuated that I am crazy, so obviously at least some attempt to explain and resolve the problem is always better than none, even if you may be wrong at least you are trying even if you are a non-doc patient.

I know many criticize advise given on the internet but if doctors were doing a better job maybe people wouldn't have to resort to such measures in the first place, sometimes I find there's more knowledge in groups like this than any GP's practice, so perhaps that is something that needs to be said a bit more too, I would like to hear a bit more of that on the news, instead of them labeling everything on the internet as rubbish and anything a doctor can't explain as the "worried well".

Thanks again,

Post Edited (NikNak101) : 3/18/2014 3:01:20 PM (GMT-6)

Hello NikNak,

I know this post was from a long time ago but did you ever find a cause or solution? I seemingly have the same issue. Small hernia as well as headaches in my forehead.