HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

TIF surgery failure takedown - undo

Support Forums
>
GERD & Acid Reflux
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
12
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 10/6/2015 11:26 PM (GMT 0)
Had TIF surgery 6-22-15 in the Chicago area. about 10 days after, my symptoms started to appear. I am 4 mon. post surgery and much worse than before my surgery. Lot of throat burning chest pain-burning and ear pain. Has anyone had this surgery taken down or undone. My surgeon will not do it, and asked me to find another for a second oppion to see if he would do it. I just want to go back to the way I was. It was tolerable then. I have an appointment at the Mayo clinic Minn in Nov.
Posted 10/7/2015 5:30 AM (GMT 0)
TIF is 270 degree fundo, theoretically, it should not make your gerd worse.
It may not completely fix it, but should improve it if done correctly.

Sometimes, the suture breaks, it will make gerd back, and the inflammation is not healed, so the patients feel worse. If this case, the patients can get the TIF fixed easily.

Sometimes, maybe the LES suddenly become completely open, make the gerd very severe and TIF can not fix it completely. If this case, the patients can implant endostim on top of TIF, TIF do not need to be reversed, there is always enough space there for endostim, TIF plus endostim should fix very advanced gerd.

Whatever, it looks reversing TIF is not necessary.
Posted 10/7/2015 8:30 AM (GMT 0)
Have they checked to see if the stitches are still OK? It may have come undone, or you may have a recurrence of a hiatus hernia. Did you stop all meds after surgery or are you still on them?

I suppose one option left if it looks fine but isn working is the full NF surgery.
Posted 10/7/2015 8:44 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks for the response guys.

My wrap is undone (via Endoscopy). It looks like a dome. I work construction, so heavy lifting is involved. Doc said no lifting for 3 weeks. I pretty much obliged and had a helper do most of the lifting, even for weeks to come had a helper. At 4 weeks after surgery I was already telling my surgeon that I regret it. He said too early to tell. I don't think reflux is the problem, still healing. Few weeks later, again I can't take it. For about 4 months I complained. Prior to surgery I got by with pepcide complete chewables and eating frequently and my symptoms weren't that bad, especially compared to how I am now. My reason for surgery was an attempt to improve my asthma, I thought silent reflux was the culprit. My assumption is that the sutures are pulling my les apart in one way and upper wrap too tight to allow acid to come back down. Not overestimating, I'm at least 5 times worse. So far asthma is slightly worse.
Posted 10/8/2015 5:40 AM (GMT 0)
If the patient's gerd is not severe, the LES still has some function, TIF should can fix it. If the suture is loose and TIF is partially undone, the doctor can fix it. I read an article reported this case, after the TIF is fixed, the gerd is gone. Always find a good doctor for any procedure, this kind of mistake can be reduced to minimum at good hand.

Yes, TIF can be reversed laparoscopically, my doctor said he reversed 3 cases, 2 of them are very easy, no scar tissue. 1 patient has some scar tissue, harder to be reversed, still reversed successfully. If something wrong with Nissen, it will be much harder to fix.

Lifting can trigger Hiatus Hernia, I remember one patient with big Hiatus Hernia reported his doctor fixed his Hiatus Hernia first, then perform TIF, his gerd was gone. Then he did a lot of heavy lift in the gym , the Hiatus Hernia come back. His doctor reversed his TIF, fix the Hiatus Hernia again, then implement TIF again. His gerd was fixed again. I think his LES is still functional, so TIFF in this case is sufficient.

If TIF can be fixed, it will be easier than reversed.

Post Edited (bye-gerd) : 10/7/2015 11:43:31 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/8/2015 9:00 AM (GMT 0)
Well if the TIF is undone that will be why it hasn't worked. Hope you find someone willing to do a redo
Posted 10/8/2015 3:53 PM (GMT 0)
bye-gerd
Who is the doctor that done these reversals and redo's. I'm in the Chicago area (USA) and i've seen in another post you've mentioned Germany. I don't think the doctors in my area have the experience. I don't know how to find the right doctor. My doctor that did the TIF will not do it. I think the average H-fasteners (stitches) are 12, I have 20. I think he let another surgeon try this surgery under his supervision (just an assumption). He said the wrap is undone but shouldn't make me worse than I was. He is wrong. He said that taking out the fasteners will leave a hole where they were and that is dangerous. I feel that, if I'm back to my original anatomy, I'll be the way I was. Much better.

Thanks guys for your concern
Posted 10/8/2015 6:46 PM (GMT 0)
scorpio,
I do not understand what your doctor said. TIF is reversed laparoscopically, cut the stitch between esophagus and stomach, not digging a hole using endoscopy. If you get it reversed, your gerd may be worse than before since you touched that area. If he is a GI doctor, he can not use laparoscopy, so he can not reverse it. But he may fix it for you using endoscopy by adding some stitches. I do not think all your stitches are loose, maybe one or two get loose.

My doctor is Hiran C Fernando at Boston Medical Center. He can do TIF, NISSEN and LINX.
Posted 10/8/2015 8:00 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks bye-gerd
My surgeon does do laparoscopy surgery like LINX and NISSEN. I think he doesn't want to bother with the takedown. What he meant by holes were where the fasteners go through, like a needle hole. For instance, I have 20 fasteners, so there will be 40 needle holes in my esophagus/stomach. He said he talked to the company that makes the TIF (EsophyX device) and told him that it's not a good idea. Perhaps he doesn't to be associated with a failed surgery and wants me to go away.

It looks like doctor Fernando is a general thoracic surgeon. I think that means he has a wide range of knowledge of the anatomy in that area such as stomach, lungs, liver, etc. Looks like I need to find one around me. If not, I may be shipping off to Boston.

Thanks again, and if you have any other information, please let me know
Posted 10/8/2015 8:05 PM (GMT 0)
bye-gerd
I so worried and caught up about me and forgot to ask about you. How are things with your situation.
Posted 10/9/2015 2:17 AM (GMT 0)
scorpio, I posted on the other thread to sixNess about Dr. Janu in Wisconsin. Someone I know who had her TIF done by Dr.Peter Janu, said he has done over 400 TIF and only (I think) 3 re-do surgeries( of his)I think she said he has done re-do for failed tif on some patients who had their tif done by other doctors.She raves about him, and tells everyone they should come to WI if they don't have a qualified surgeon by them. Maybe he is closer to you than Boston.It can't hurt to get a consult, or call their office.I know they recommended qualified surgeons in other states to a few people.Good luck to you.
Posted 10/9/2015 4:50 AM (GMT 0)
400 is really large volume. Some doctor will announce "I have implemented 100 cases of TIF". Are you sure it is 400, not 40?

Before TIF, my gerd was uncontrolled, my valve type is D. After TIF, it is A/B, still have flux, but much improved. My case is different since my gerd is severe before.

The gerd now is still annoying and I will never try NISSEN. I felt hopeless. After I know Endostim can be implanted on top of TIF, it gives me some hope. Hopefully, TIF plus Endostim can fix very advanced gerd.
Since my family has strong esophagus cancer history, I had better completely fix my gerd. I planned to fly to Germany to get Endostim done, but sick recently, also, flying to Germany to have the procedure make me feel upset. At least, I think I find the solution.
Posted 10/9/2015 10:40 AM (GMT 0)
Yes I am sure it is 400 since 2009...he was one of the first surgeons to start performing TIF in the US. Our surgeon in NYC has done about 65.I considered going to Wisconsin just because his success rate was supposed to be so high, but I feel confident with ours in NY. I'm not endorsing anything, just trying to offer Scorpion an option since my friend has been so successful with this doctor.All I can say is research as many options as possible...he already had a bad experience so I want him to have a good resolution.
Posted 10/9/2015 7:56 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks guys, you've given me a starting point. They say it's just bad luck to have this illness, but there are so many in this world who suffer. There has to be a link to something. I wish they would consider the cause other than luck. I think there is a culture out there that hasn't had much of western influences, such as the way we eat or process food, and have better quality of lives.
Posted 9/2/2018 1:06 AM (GMT 0)
Tif producure 8 weks ago aneed take the stiches because went my neack is donw is aheve asidex reflux
Posted 9/2/2018 1:14 AM (GMT 0)
Help please
Posted 9/5/2018 11:53 AM (GMT 0)
Fergyduck7:

I can't help you with your TIF question, and you are responding to a thread that is 3 years old. Please start your own topic, you should get more response that way - although the Boards are very slow.

Sharon
Posted 9/10/2018 8:32 PM (GMT 0)
Fegyduck. I now have gastroparesis after they took the stitches out. Means my stomach is paralyzed.
I was better off not doing it. Make sure whoever you find that they tell you about the VAGUS nerve. TIF made me worse and I thought undoing it would bring me back to how I was. I was wrong. I have all the new symptoms that TIF gave me and now the symptoms of gastroparesis. it's been 3 years now and I'm only 40 with 2 sons 18 and 15. I tell myself at night I don't have to wake up. There is no cure for gastroparesis. Doctor told me the nerves may take up to a year to heal. it's been 3. Even with Nissen Fundo they remove the stitches if they can before they do the wrap which will cut your nerve. Don't let them fool you to think it's safe.

Who did yours by the way and where.
Mine was Ujiki at northshore/Chiago
The Doctor that did the reversal was Janu Calumet Hosp/Chilton WI ( Janu did about 1000 TIF before I saw him) Neither one of them told me about the VAGUS nerve.
Posted 9/10/2018 11:04 PM (GMT 0)
Here's my story posted in another thread here:

Had my hiatal hernia repaired (less than 3m) and the Linx done on August 30th....its been almost 10 days and I'm not gonna lie to ya....its pain, pain and more pain....got the Percoset to take but dont wanna rely on it here after day 7....taking Tylenol to keep internal swelling and inflammation down as much as possible.

So glad I found this forum in not feeling like the only one with symptoms afterwards....

Each day is different....eating pretty much anything slowly, swallowing every 20-25 seconds is my only choice....
trying to drink water by itself is so painful....gotta take any meds with baby foods I enjoy or applesauce....gotta drink water immediately after eating something.....anyone else going thru this misery?

Today I made the mistake of eating some bread and omg, I almost screamed out loud with sharp pains in the right side of my back....felt like a knife being pushed in harder and harder....along with extreme pressure below my chestbone which I get often....

On the bright side I can bend over, walk around, do some gardening, sleeping better than before without having to urinate two to three times a night....Im up only once....prob cuz Im not taking in lots of liquids.....
able to drive the car since day after surgery but get fatigued easier, which will probably pass....

Im staying optimistic and hopefull all this will improve with time.....probably months here....

And my five incisions with the glue tape over them havent been an issue but lately they feel a little sore and the glue is unravaling....have a doctors appt this Tuesday coming up.....he's the only doc in Virginia that does this procedure and approximately 1 1/2 hours away by car....been getting free transport thru my insurance company there and back....very blessed to have this option....

Okay I've said enuf for now and will keep everyone informed and to all of you a big thanks for sharing and sending healing thots of good recovery for the future.
Posted 9/21/2018 6:36 PM (GMT 0)
Scorpio thank yuo for the information the nerve vagus the doctor cut when tif producure o when nissen because when blend my chest stars to hurt me and alsi when I put my arms up, U feel a huge burn .Maybe my nerves vagus is damage because is not normal the sintoms im take desicion tif because ahave sort throut ebriday
Posted 9/25/2018 7:45 PM (GMT 0)
I went to a doctor and had a robotic assisted gastroesophageal valvuloplasty in Florida and another doc in PA. Here is a link which gives you lots of info.. I don’t know exactly what the TIF procedure is all about but he does a takedown of the Nissen and his valvuloplasty. I had mine two years ago and I am doing great. You may want to see him as a second opinion to see if this is the right procedure for you.

We have lots of info on our FB site Esophageal/Valvuloplasty/Robotic Esophageal Valvuloplasty for GERD

Post Edited (Yellow19) : 9/25/2018 1:50:09 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/25/2018 8:46 PM (GMT 0)
Hey Scorpio, how are coping with it buddy, is the pain unbearable at times, or are their good days and bad days?
Posted 10/1/2018 12:47 AM (GMT 0)
jwebb, It's been over 3 years now and at least I can sleep a little better. By better I mean from 6hrs in 3 days to about 6 hrs a night. I don't have a life. I also have bowl issues so I tend to stay close to home. For the last year dealing with hydration issues (foamy urine). Kidney test ok though. Lungs not doing too good neither from aspiration. The pain isn't as intense as its was or I'm just building a tolerance. Surgeon said nerves take about 6 months to a year to heal, I'm beyond that. I just wish that I didn't have to feel like I went and got seconds at a buffet all the time even though I didn't eat. I guess you can say that my bad days before surgery are now my good days now. I keep wondering if stem cells would help, but I don't think they have that figured out yet and if they said they did, I'd probably wouldn't trust them anyway. I was never warned about this complication. I was only told it was a 50/50 chance it might not work. Their priority is to get someone on the table.
Thanks for your concern
Posted 10/6/2018 5:53 AM (GMT 0)
I haven't posted on here in years.... Was feeling down so I thought I'd check out this site. I come pack to it every once in a while to see if there is an update or new treatment, but I was surprised I was mentioned in this threat 😎. I posted a lot 3 to 4 years ago.

Scorpio... I had a very similar experience with the tif. I'm worse now after it than before. I have nerve problems and a slow stomach. I had the nissen done over the top of my tif. It helped very slightly. But there's now way I can get off my ppis zantac and gabapentin.

It seems like the best solution is to come to terms with how awful we must live and make the most of it.
Posted 10/6/2018 10:28 PM (GMT 0)
sixness, I've been trying to find you. Who did your TIF. Mine was undone by Peter Janu in Chilton,WI. I know you 're from there. I wanted to know how things are going. I see that things are the same for you too. I did'nt have a nissen. Just wondering if the take down of TIF caused your vagus nerve damage. It did to me. Wondering if we could do something about this. I called the company that sells TIF and they said they never heard of anyone getting worse after TIF and that I had my issues before hand. They say you can have it redone. How is that possible with out messing up the nerves even more. You had yours a few years before me. My email is scorpiossnake@yahoo
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
12