Child Abuse/Alcoholic Household

Merrida.. I am following your journey and wishing the best for you.
Jfer.......I cant handle speaking on the phone too, so I was interested to read your thoughts on that!

Poppie,
Isn't it interesting you also have 'phone phobia'? My mother used to talk about having it as well.

The reason for it I believe is basic anxiety because I know I need time to process what is occuring in the conversation, and I get very anxious having to make a decision on the spot. This usually is worst when I have to make appointments, as I recognize I am a people pleaser and want to just say 'yes' - to please the receptionist and to get off the phone!

I can't make appointments in the mornings because I usually am in pain, and often have diarrhea, and sometimes migraines. I HATE the "we have Tuesday at 8am". I say "no, that's too early for me, after 11am is best." Then I get Thursday at 10am, Monday at 9am, it goes on, and on, I say afternoons and still I get mornings, or then it's 6 weeks out...

My anxiety has been climbing up and up and I guess this happened so much I now avoid, which is the worst solution ever.

My solution is I try to write down what I want to say/have happen/ appointment days and times I'm available before I call anyone. My fibromyalgia/memory/brain fog is twice as bad when I'm anxious. Then I can't even think clearly, or find the right words.

Before I knew why my memory for words was so bad, my husband dubbed my language as 'Jenny- ese' why? I'd talk to him saying 'you know that thing we talked about the other day when you said something that I didn't like? Well I thought about that and it's okay." (Maxing lay he usually gets what I'm saying!).

If you or anyone has any thoughts, or solutions, I too would be very interesting.
Take care,
Jfer (Jennifer)

Hi Jfer and Merida. I think my phone phobia stems from talking to my Mother, in fact I know it does! she never even wanted to spend the time talking to me on the phone, and I would know this and feel it keenly as a young woman, and it made me feel so sad. She would often speak in a winding down voice after only a couple of minutes and that was my cue to get off the line..now of course I never think anyone wants to really talk to me on the phone, so I find myself sometimes hurrying people on the phone in much the same way, because I feel like they don't really want to talk to me.. that's how it feels anyway.

Making appointments is also tricky, so I completely understand in that respect, I cant seem to make decisions on the phone, it sends me into a tail spin, I sweat, its like they are speaking a different language, and its not clear to me what that language is! writing down what I need to say beforehand helps, but If I feel really stressed out my throat will close so I cannot then get any words out, and I will end up squeaking instead of speaking, I then have to pretend I have a sore throat ha ha!

So, yep I don't like the phone much.

"But I feel this inexplicable need to explain "why" to them I can or cannot make that particular day/date/time"..this is interesting and I feel the need to do the same, really!

I have always done this! if I was to hazard a guess I think its because I'm looking for the receptionist, who is a complete stranger, to approve of my decision to cancel and change it for a different time, its an uncomfortable thought, but this may be why I do it, I'm not too sure really to be honest.

Post Edited (Poppie) : 9/22/2014 12:53:49 PM (GMT-6)

I have that too. My voice gets meek and squeaky as if I'm waiting for approval...

Dang-nabbit I wish I could maintain confidence and self-control!




M.

Hi again -
Btw today I turned 50. Birthdays have never bothered me, turning 30, 40, etc, but this one has. I never expected to disabled with no income, losing my dream home and moving due to my lack of income, being so very sick... I feel mega sad and defeated. I keep trying to use a mantra repeating how greatful for what I DO have (roof over my head, food, clothing, my husband who loves me, my wonderful daughters, my dogs and cat, etc)...

Because of my multiple illnesses I had to stop working 3 years ago with a goal of focusing on me, getting healthy, and returning to work. It didn't happen. After my first year off I thought of trying to get my feet wet - ie: returning to work - I volunteered to help kids get their HS diploma, (vs GED) I lasted 2 days. The crouching and bending and standing and the anxiety of not always knowing all the answers left me very sick in bed with excruciating pain thru out my body.

Last year I was hired by my daughters best friends mom - work ten hrs a week from home, auditing clinical charts. Perfect! But--- it wasn't that at all, it was working up to 30 hrs a week mostly in their office!!! I had minimal training (if that was what it would be called) and with my anxiety and fibro I could barely retain any information. It was humiliating to me; I used to be the quickest learner and a great problem solver. I used to be the "go to person" at all jobs I had... And the info that I was given was poorly dispersed, if at all. and it changed week to week. I was lost. Again, I was treated like 'the black sheep' It was humiliating.

The business itself was a cluster ****, and unethical. The manager was a nurses aide who didn't know anything about the business. I think with me entering the picture, and taking over a lot if her clinical duties (she was not trained for) she resented me. (Ie: clinical charts, treatment planning, audits, and the knowledge of eating disordered young women in an intensive outpatient program). I honestly believe she felt I was stepping in her pissing area and did what she could so I couldn't succeed. Sounds harsh but sadly, she had all the control and didn't like to dole anything out to me.

So - Guess what my primary role was? CALLING multiple insurance companies daily to get authorization for psychiatric service... And the authorizations were for like 2-3 days. So I had to call and call and call people all day, but bc the business was so dysfunctional and clinicians were not documenting correctly, I had to sometimes be less than truthful hoping the clinicians were in fact doing their job but not documenting accurately. Then when I asked about "on call" crisis support (part of the programs accreditation) I was told "oh ya there's on call but nobody of calls back" WHAT??? It made me sick to my stomach, these poor girls. And when communicating w the owner about this she disclosed one if their clients jumped off a freeway bridge last year, committing suicide. WHAT??? And u allow ur crisis on call not to call? With no consequences? She's lucky she didn't lose her license.

Hence - my anxiety was in full bloom!!! I had pain and diarrhea every day, multiple times a day. I had a clinician documenting she was doing DBT (a specialized behavioral program) but she wasn't doing it correctly. I talked with the owner (my daughters best friend mom) -

She said that was why I was hired - utilization review- to find and fix these things. But I was stuck making these PHONE calls in a weird version of anxiety land. I was fired after six weeks. Not bc I couldn't do what I was hired to do, but because I wasn't given time to do what I was hired for, and bc I was sick every single day.

I still haven't been paid - (another part of the job I wasn't told about that it's contract work and was having to sign a 6 page contract agreeing not to be paid if they didn't like my work and the company having up to a year to pay me) I got this 5 weeks in.

Hey - I started on my 49th birthday! That's a coincidence.
Anyway - another huge anxiety thing is I've never asked for my 600.00. Any suggestions how to ask?

If it were only that easy to put it all behind us.

Some of us have been "trained" (by how we were treated) to be submissive, to be a people-pleaser, and to permit people to take advantage of us.

I had a boss who definitely was inappropriate and took advantage of me. He was unethical and creepy to boot, and I never saw the signs. It was like I couldn't recognize what was right in front of me. It still creeps me out and this was before I was married.

To quote Sherlock Holmes: "Bad people do bad things because they can." Maybe someone else said it too, who knows. But there will always be those unprofessional people, piranhas who feed on the weak. And yes, we were weak and permissive, but not out of malice but because we're trusting, we want to believe the best in people, and we shrink in the face of conflict.

Until we learn how to gain self-confidence and rely on ourselves with truth, with impunity, we're at risk.

I'm 51 and among other jobs, my passion, my love, was my career as a personal trainer. My "mother" would reprimand me for not having a "real job," and tell me my Husband would leave me if I didn't get my "act" together. (She used harsher words).

It was my dream job and I miss it terribly. I stopped working around 8 years ago (my memory blows donkey bubbles so my timing may be off), and I didn't file for Disability until about a year, year and a half ago because I was so embarrassed. Then I filed.

I have so many orthopedic, neurological, and yeah, psychological issues....and my so-called "income" from Disability is a joke. It's less than I'd make in a week when I was working. So I'm embarrassed by that. I feel inadequate. What do I "bring to the table" after-all?? See, those words still sting....

But I have the most amazing Husband in the whole wide world who has stood by me through some horrendous times, and he continues to be my rock. I have nothing to show for myself (re: retirement, savings, etc.)....it's all gone. And yes, I'm embarrassed about that too.

But my priorities have shifted, and my "job" is,...at least for now,...to take care of me. To finally and fully take care of my body, my mind, my spirit. It's a full-time position and it's non-transferrable. And that's okay too...






M.

I just lost my entire post somehow.

Breathe Jen, breathe...

Ok- poppie - therapy can be life changing. It can help u see things from a different perspective as we all think we have the 'corner on the truth' and there can BE several truths! My husband has never believed in therapy and always questioned my therapy. Ie: did u talk about me?!

First -seeing a therapist is like seeing a dr. - there are some great drs who 'get you and support you' and some drs that just stink. If the therapist doesn't feel right, makes you feel uncomfortable in a bad way- find another!

My therapist is awesome. She 'gets me' she validates me but also questions me and challenges me. She helped me with my quest to encourage my husband to get therapy (I believed bc of my illnesses, his job, his misinformed belief system, he was depressed and anxious)- and bc he announced one evening he can't see himself spending the rest of his life with someone who can't be active and engaged in life... (I also recognized he had headaches that were coming daily, anger, increased drinking, online secrets -the worst ) And my therapist gave help on communicating with him based on his needs and personality and gave me names of male therapists in their practice w the ultimate goal of couples therapy... And he's attending! He says he likes his therapist and believes it's helping! I also got him to see our primary Dr. about his headaches etc. he's now on lexapro which I've observed has decreased his anger, anxiety and headaches, and now we both recognize we are closer than we have been in years!!!

I told my therapist this week that I think we are feeling so close bc we are doing what she recommended (he likes physical touch, hugs kisses to show love where as I like verbal 'you look great today/I like how u fixed your hair today/those jeans really make ur butt look good).

U can find the quiz for IDing this type of communication at www.therelationshipinstitute.com (or drop the 'the')

More to come but I'm sending before losing another post!!!
Jfer

Jfer..Thanks for sharing, I particularly liked "That's what an effective happy mom would say!!!" maybe the key word is "happy"

best to you.

Merrida, I read your post with dismay. I am so sorry you had to go through what you went through, thank goodness you have a great MIL!

I'm not a social person either, I'm sure its all related to my upbringing. I'm basically quite introverted, and have found I have become more so as I have gotten older, so I tend to avoid any social gathering, it takes it out of me somehow, although I will go if pushed, or if I feel it would benefit me to network, but actually I am a lot happier at home with my three dogs.

Best to you.

Today's therapy nugget: He told me that holding onto resentment is like drinking a bottle of poison and expecting the other person to die from it.

We're hurting ourselves.

He's giving me some interesting perspective, some great exercises. He's not excusing her behaviour by any means what so ever, but he's helping me to understand how she *may* have perceived her actions.

We did NOT discuss the sexual abuse today, we talked about how she slept with, had an affair with, then married the guy who was my boyfriend at the time. That was the trauma-topic. When I described her, my perception of how she is cold, calculating, uncaring, disrespectful, rude...(and the list goes on)....he gently ever so gently reminded me of how interesting it is that despite this, she seems to have a warm and caring relationship with her nieces and their children.

Hmm...now I don't YET know what this means, (I may never know), and as he says, he's not telling me anything, diagnosing anything, drawing conclusions,....he's just trying to get me to expand my thinking to at least be receptive to thoughts and ideas.

My homework (I see him again on Monday) is to look into S.A.S.S. (the sexual assault survival support group). He said I'm not obligated to join, but he'd like me to make the effort, even if it's just a phone call to speak with someone. It's about movement and doing,...not stagnating,...but acting.

I'm buckling down guys....I've got my work cut out for me!





M.

Well in therapy we didn't talk about the sexual or physical abuse. We talked about one issue and how I felt "at that time" (I had to go back some years)....

The way I perceive it is that we're not done yet, but he's giving me room to pause. Sometimes people who may be kind to others have bad behaviour towards their own kids. I think he's trying to get me to separate that.

I agree what she did was terrible. I told him I'm not ready to forgive, may never be. He said I don't have to. We never forget, but we must forgive OURSELVES (the shame we carry around with us). We must learn to alter our perspective so we don't 'toxify' ourselves with resentment that doesn't do anything but hurt us.

He's trying to help me see the differentiation between a person, and their behaviour.

He doesn't take sides, he opens my mind, but believe me, in absolutely no way does he justify any of what she's done to me and he makes that abundantly clear.

My resentment that she's kind to her nieces, etc., but couldn't be to me.......that's the toxic poison he's talking about. Being resentful isn't hurting her it's just making me sick.

He's incredibly interactive and I'm feeling so fortunate I get to see him twice a week! I found a gem in this guy!!

Thank you for checking in with me and reading up on my progress. I appreciate the feedback.





M.

Let me help to explain his approach. Again, fervently, he is not excusing her or her behaviour in the least. What he's trying to do is educate me through these traumas. My "mother" did not, herself, create sexual, physical and emotional abuse. She had to learn it somewhere, as all perps do. Either it was done to her as a child and/or she witnessed it (and being the oldest of 12 kids, in a violent, abusive, alcoholic home filled with battery, etc.)

All he's trying to get is to help broaden my perspective, not excuse her behaviour. W/O knowing her, just based on what I'm telling him of my memories from her homelife/household and how scared I felt at her Father's house,.... My therapist is simply reminding me: She learned it from somewhere. Not just the abuse aspects, but to bear in mind that she was the child of an abusive/alcoholic home and as such, it's all she knew. I repeat, this exercise is not about my having to forget, forgive or even have sympathy for her as my perp.

The exercise is for perspective to explain how some of her behaviours (skip some of the icky abuse parts for a sec), but that being brought up that way, that's how kids were punished, emotionally abused, shamed, isolated, belittled, and had the fear instilled in them early on.

Same as me. She carried the pattern forth.

I carried some of that pattern forth by having low self-esteem, being manipulated, felt a duty to always follow and do what "mother" tells me to do...she groomed me from an early age to be passive, accept abuse.

The point being,...I've made a break from what I feel is like a CULT of her lifestyle with her family. They "accept" her behaviours because it's all familiar. What "I" am doing (ie: therapy, living well, having a happy marriage, doing what I want to do, not having multiple kids from multiple baby daddies and a few divorces under my belt, I don't drink or smoke or do drugs, I don't really consider myself a cusser -- but a few words pop out if I'm angry).

I've broken the circle. He is not giving permission for her behaviours, rather he's wanting me to see how deep these behaviours run in families and what's considered acceptable. What "I" am doing is making me the black sheep of the family because it doesn't fit their long standing mold that's crossing generations.

And, there was obviously some type of rivalry or dysfunction (hate that word) between her as my "mother" and me as her Daughter.....where her baviours fell to me and (perhaps?) not to her nieces and their kids, etc.

I do want to clarify that post because for me, I like that he isn't just castigating her and building up my anger and loathing. That's when the talk of resentment came in. Me continually feeling resentful towards her for what happened to me is like drinking poison and expecting her to suffer, or die.

That's why he recommended the book: Understanding the Borderline Mother....to explain how mothers who have mental health issues, who feel it's more important what people think (image) than to ever expose the dirty secrets inside, who grew up in abusive homes....what ends up happening to their kids and how it manifests it.

He cannot dx her obviously, but based on my info, he thinks I'll find this helpful. It's for educational purposes to understand a portion of what triggers these behaviours in such "mothers." NOT to give them an out or excuse or a free pass. NOT in the least. Huuuuuge emphasis on that.

As I mentioned, when he had this conversation with me, it actually soothed me somewhat. Sure, I'm still angry as heck at what she did to me and how I find myself in therapy at 51 over the stuff she did to me as a child. But,...that's what I'm here for. That's what I'm there for. That's what I'm working on, and he doesn't sit passively, he engages and educates.

I have a lot of happy memories from my childhood but they always involve being alone, or with my Dad or HIS parents, my dogs, horses, cats.....I do not have one single happy memory from my "mother" what so ever. Not even one. Miserable as far back as I can remember, and let me tell you, I can remember things from a very young age!!

Does that make sense? I do want to clarify because as I go through all of this in real time with you guys, and you're all a great big part of my support system (yeah I know, I know, I need to get out more, but hey one step at a time).

Understanding does not mean excusing or forgiveness or acceptance. It simply means opening one's mind up to one possible understanding of many. That's all it means.

I still can't say "mother" or have thoughts of her (which are still intrusive) without feeling RAGE and disgust and anger,...and a few other choice words.

I do wish I could ask her "WHY?" Why did she do this to me. But I can't and won't. Because I'm not sure I want to know, because it doesn't matter it's in the past, and because I'm not sure I give a darn anymore,....I just know I have become healthier and stronger since removing myself from ANY and ALL association with her on MY terms.

Does that make sense? You guys are my Family here and I value your input a whole lot!! You mean so much to me, and good/bad/indifferent, I always value hearing what you guys have to say!





M.